We use a number of the Altech CBI485A power supplies for this application - 48VDC 5A UPS for external batteries. It has the same monitoring drawback as the other solutions - just dry contacts so we end up adding packetflux gear to monitor it. It works fine but a true rectifier shelf is a far better answer.
Mark > On Jun 21, 2019, at 10:35 AM, Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote: > > For this we use a PacketFlux SiteMonitor. The contacts on the Traco BCM/BCMU > connect to the "switch" input on the SiteMonitor to let us know when the site > loses AC power. When we require switched loads, we add a PacketFlux 5Channel > PDU which can be monitored/controlled remotely via the SiteMonitor. > > For 1U solutions, the ICT that Adam linked to looks super nice. I have been > trying to find an excuse to buy/try one. We don't have rack space at most of > our sites though (except for larger sites), so the DIN rail stuff makes more > sense most of the time. > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 10:25 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com > <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote: > When you do a setup with the industrial Meanwell, Traco, etc stuff one thing > to keep in mind is monitoring. With that class of equipment you'll have dry > contacts and you'll need something to monitor those for alarms. You'll > probably want a current shunt and then either a set of Packetflux modules or > something like a Tycon TPDIN-Monitor-WEB2. > > Then think about remote control and power distribution. If you don't > want/need to reboot individual devices then distribution can just be a set of > terminal blocks. If you DO want/need to reboot individual devices then you > need some kind of PDU with either relay contacts or an ethernet connection. > > So I'm going to point in a completely different direction now: > http://www.ict-power.com/products/modular-power-series/ > <http://www.ict-power.com/products/modular-power-series/> > or > https://www.vertiv.com/globalassets/products/critical-power/dc-power-systems/netsure-2100-a31-s1--ds-en-asia.pdf > > <https://www.vertiv.com/globalassets/products/critical-power/dc-power-systems/netsure-2100-a31-s1--ds-en-asia.pdf> > > Either the Vertiv or ICT device linked above is a single 1RU device with > rectifier, battery controller, network interface, and PDU with remotely > flippable circuit breakers. I have one of the ICT MPS units and the system > is dead simple. I think it's around $1500-1800 for that. That's probably > double what you'd spend for an equivalent set of features with Traco or > Meanwell combined with Packetflux modules. However, you gain space > efficiency, simpler design, simpler to set up, and simpler to use for you and > your technicians. And I'm pretty sure the ICT and Vertiv units both have > relay contacts if you do need to monitor things like door sensors and such. > > The Alpha Cordex that Josh Baird linked to earlier does some of that, but > doesn't include a PDU and it's 2RU. I'd looked real hard at Alpha, but it's a > little more complicated to use, and by the time you add some kind of PDU > you're using way more space than you would with ICT MPS or Vertiv NS2100. > > Don't take my word for it. Try doing Site Monitors and industrial power > supplies first. If you're happy with that method then you will save money > doing it. I didn't go this other direction until I had to explain to a new > technician how to use the Site Monitor and realized that there's no way to > make it simple enough for a low level goon. > > Oh...and if remote monitoring and control aren't important for your case, > then definitely do Meanwell or Traco. Way cheaper, smaller, and simpler. > It's when you start adding features that you encounter the complexity and > size issue I'm talking about. > > -Adam > > > On 6/20/2019 3:58 PM, Josh Baird wrote: >> Our typical setup medium sized sites is: >> >> Traco TSP-360-148 (360W @ 48V) >> Traco TSP-BCM48A (we usually put a string of 4 12-33ah 12V batteries on >> these) >> >> For very small sites, where we only need (or can fit) 1 12V battery, but >> still require 48VDC, we do: >> >> Meanwell SDR-240-48 >> Traco TSP-BCMU (good for ~220W, can output either 24VDC or 48VDC with a >> single 12VDC battery.. we usually put a single 18-33ah battery on these) >> >> Voltage drop obviously depends on length of the run, but you should be able >> to easily calculate that. We usually adjust our PSU's (at the bottom) to >> ~54VDC and we typically see ~49-51VDC at the top. Yes, you can tweak the >> output of both the Meanwell and the Traco to compensate for voltage drop if >> needed. >> >> We use a Shireen hybrid fiber cable which has a 12AWG pair for DC. We use >> these up to 200ft or so. >> >> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 3:47 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net >> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: >> So what’s the Traco parts list for that? >> >> >> I don’t do this stuff normally, so excited to get started and try it out. >> >> >> If I’m pushing 48v up top to a roof, what’s the voltage drop? >> >> >> I assume these DC units can somehow be tweaked so that output can >> accommodate for voltage drop. >> >> >> What size wire is everyone using typically for this, usually 30-100 ft max >> length? >> >> >> I’m assuming it’s something like 10 AWG? At 48v and 5A and 50’ is maybe >> 47.5v at the end? >> >> So I would push 49 or 50v just to be safe? >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of Josh Baird >> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 8:19 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion >> >> >> FWIW - we have lots of EdgePoint S16's that are powered by Traco BCM/TSP >> combos @ ~54V with no issues. >> >> >> I agree with others - your battery plant should be 48VDC. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 10:15 AM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net >> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: >> >> Yeah, I’ll probably just use 48v battery array in series and float higher. >> >> >> That particular device can do 48v, it just may shut down POE if it gets >> lower than 48v. >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 8:11 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion >> >> >> Why not run your system at 54 volts? If the radio freaks out above 54, just >> set it at 54 and you should be fine. Battery strings don’t exceed the float >> voltage of the rectifier. If you are worried about it float at 53.75 volts. >> >> >> From: Sterling Jacobson >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 11:19 PM >> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion >> >> >> Having a hard time figuring out the exact part/price for something like this. >> >> >> Which Meanwell part would take 48v and make it 50v or 54v 5A? >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of Adam Moffett >> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:21 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion >> >> >> That's weird to me. Any telecom equipment made for 48v I would have assumed >> they intended it to be used with a rectifier, and consequently I would >> assume it'd be ok up to at least 56v continuous; and maybe more like 60-70v >> for a short duration. But yeah, DC-DC converter is the fix. >> >> On 6/18/2019 11:36 PM, Sean Heskett wrote: >> >> You need to use a DC-DC converter for sensitive equipment like that. >> Meanwell has a good selection. >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 8:12 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net >> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: >> >> Apparently the UBNT EP-S16 freaks out if it goes above 54v. >> >> Is there any way to assure it doesn’t float/charge above 54v, or maybe even >> just 50v? >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of TJ Trout >> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:26 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion >> >> >> contact talley or tessco for a price, don't trust what you see on google, >> it's like 50% less >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:25 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com >> <mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote: >> >> all 48v systems for battery power will float at 54v, it's also adjustable >> via the battery chemistry >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 3:33 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net >> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: >> >> Ok, cool. >> >> >> So can the 7bc2 be adjusted slightly to output 50v instead of just 48v? >> >> >> There will be some loss going 100’ or so, right? >> >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of TJ Trout >> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 4:23 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion >> >> >> 12-54v is inefficient, if you want 200ah of battery use 4x50ah batteries for >> a 48v string >> >> ICT24048-7BC2 360W 54v AC-DC + LVD + Charger >> ICT-TMP - Temp sensor for charge compensation if batt's outside >> ICT-WMB - Wall mount bracket >> SITE Monitor - Voltage monitoring >> >> Or >> >> Alternativly; >> >> 48v din mount PSU >> 48v 'dc ups' to charge batt's and provide LVD >> OR >> 48v din 'dc ups' with integrated psu + lvd + charger (i.e. DIN-UPS 48-5 >> cheaper options available) >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:50 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net >> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: >> >> I’m trying to put a “box” system together for our house POP sites and need >> help with the DIN stuff and UPS. >> >> >> Can you guys give me an idea or example of the following? >> >> >> I want to take standard AC 15A in from a breaker outside the box. >> >> And using maybe one or two 12v 105AH AGM batteries, supply 50v 6A up the >> side of the house. >> >> >> I have never ordered DIN parts like this, guess I don’t have to use DIN, but >> would be nice. >> >> >> Having a problem finding a DC to DC converter that takes 12v and upconverts >> to 50v 5-6A. >> >> >> Is this the cost effective method? Something like this: >> >> >> Monitoring Sitemonitor Base Unit II SMON Base II >> 1.00 $100.00 $100.00 >> >> UPS Monitor Sitemonitor Int MorningStar MeterBus SMON MorningStar >> 1.00 $60.00 $60.00 >> >> UPS Charge MorningStar Sunsaver Dual >> 1.00 $165.00 >> $165.00 >> >> Battery AGM Deep Cycle 105AH NPP FT12-105AH >> 2.00 $225.00 $450.00 >> >> DIN Parts like DC fuse/breakers and trunk stuff >> 1.00 $100.00 >> $100.00 >> >> DC 12v to 50v 5A >> 1.00 >> $150.00 $150.00 >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>-- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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