I prefer to use one shunt in the return/ground/common battery connection. That way you can monitor charge and discharge with only one shunt and a single ended non isolated connection. If you have isolated telemetry inputs, you can do the same thing on the positive side. And if you want to put in two shunts, you can have one on the charger and one on the load so you don’t have to mentally reverse load current from battery recharge current after an outage.
From: Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 8:25 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion When you do a setup with the industrial Meanwell, Traco, etc stuff one thing to keep in mind is monitoring. With that class of equipment you'll have dry contacts and you'll need something to monitor those for alarms. You'll probably want a current shunt and then either a set of Packetflux modules or something like a Tycon TPDIN-Monitor-WEB2. Then think about remote control and power distribution. If you don't want/need to reboot individual devices then distribution can just be a set of terminal blocks. If you DO want/need to reboot individual devices then you need some kind of PDU with either relay contacts or an ethernet connection. So I'm going to point in a completely different direction now: http://www.ict-power.com/products/modular-power-series/ or https://www.vertiv.com/globalassets/products/critical-power/dc-power-systems/netsure-2100-a31-s1--ds-en-asia.pdf Either the Vertiv or ICT device linked above is a single 1RU device with rectifier, battery controller, network interface, and PDU with remotely flippable circuit breakers. I have one of the ICT MPS units and the system is dead simple. I think it's around $1500-1800 for that. That's probably double what you'd spend for an equivalent set of features with Traco or Meanwell combined with Packetflux modules. However, you gain space efficiency, simpler design, simpler to set up, and simpler to use for you and your technicians. And I'm pretty sure the ICT and Vertiv units both have relay contacts if you do need to monitor things like door sensors and such. The Alpha Cordex that Josh Baird linked to earlier does some of that, but doesn't include a PDU and it's 2RU. I'd looked real hard at Alpha, but it's a little more complicated to use, and by the time you add some kind of PDU you're using way more space than you would with ICT MPS or Vertiv NS2100. Don't take my word for it. Try doing Site Monitors and industrial power supplies first. If you're happy with that method then you will save money doing it. I didn't go this other direction until I had to explain to a new technician how to use the Site Monitor and realized that there's no way to make it simple enough for a low level goon. Oh...and if remote monitoring and control aren't important for your case, then definitely do Meanwell or Traco. Way cheaper, smaller, and simpler. It's when you start adding features that you encounter the complexity and size issue I'm talking about. -Adam On 6/20/2019 3:58 PM, Josh Baird wrote: Our typical setup medium sized sites is: Traco TSP-360-148 (360W @ 48V) Traco TSP-BCM48A (we usually put a string of 4 12-33ah 12V batteries on these) For very small sites, where we only need (or can fit) 1 12V battery, but still require 48VDC, we do: Meanwell SDR-240-48 Traco TSP-BCMU (good for ~220W, can output either 24VDC or 48VDC with a single 12VDC battery.. we usually put a single 18-33ah battery on these) Voltage drop obviously depends on length of the run, but you should be able to easily calculate that. We usually adjust our PSU's (at the bottom) to ~54VDC and we typically see ~49-51VDC at the top. Yes, you can tweak the output of both the Meanwell and the Traco to compensate for voltage drop if needed. We use a Shireen hybrid fiber cable which has a 12AWG pair for DC. We use these up to 200ft or so. On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 3:47 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote: So what’s the Traco parts list for that? I don’t do this stuff normally, so excited to get started and try it out. If I’m pushing 48v up top to a roof, what’s the voltage drop? I assume these DC units can somehow be tweaked so that output can accommodate for voltage drop. What size wire is everyone using typically for this, usually 30-100 ft max length? I’m assuming it’s something like 10 AWG? At 48v and 5A and 50’ is maybe 47.5v at the end? So I would push 49 or 50v just to be safe? From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 8:19 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion FWIW - we have lots of EdgePoint S16's that are powered by Traco BCM/TSP combos @ ~54V with no issues. I agree with others - your battery plant should be 48VDC. On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 10:15 AM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote: Yeah, I’ll probably just use 48v battery array in series and float higher. That particular device can do 48v, it just may shut down POE if it gets lower than 48v. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 8:11 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion Why not run your system at 54 volts? If the radio freaks out above 54, just set it at 54 and you should be fine. Battery strings don’t exceed the float voltage of the rectifier. If you are worried about it float at 53.75 volts. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 11:19 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion Having a hard time figuring out the exact part/price for something like this. Which Meanwell part would take 48v and make it 50v or 54v 5A? From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:21 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion That's weird to me. Any telecom equipment made for 48v I would have assumed they intended it to be used with a rectifier, and consequently I would assume it'd be ok up to at least 56v continuous; and maybe more like 60-70v for a short duration. But yeah, DC-DC converter is the fix. On 6/18/2019 11:36 PM, Sean Heskett wrote: You need to use a DC-DC converter for sensitive equipment like that. Meanwell has a good selection. On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 8:12 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote: Apparently the UBNT EP-S16 freaks out if it goes above 54v. Is there any way to assure it doesn’t float/charge above 54v, or maybe even just 50v? From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of TJ Trout Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:26 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion contact talley or tessco for a price, don't trust what you see on google, it's like 50% less On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:25 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: all 48v systems for battery power will float at 54v, it's also adjustable via the battery chemistry On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 3:33 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote: Ok, cool. So can the 7bc2 be adjusted slightly to output 50v instead of just 48v? There will be some loss going 100’ or so, right? From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of TJ Trout Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 4:23 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS and DC to DC conversion 12-54v is inefficient, if you want 200ah of battery use 4x50ah batteries for a 48v string ICT24048-7BC2 360W 54v AC-DC + LVD + Charger ICT-TMP - Temp sensor for charge compensation if batt's outside ICT-WMB - Wall mount bracket SITE Monitor - Voltage monitoring Or Alternativly; 48v din mount PSU 48v 'dc ups' to charge batt's and provide LVD OR 48v din 'dc ups' with integrated psu + lvd + charger (i.e. DIN-UPS 48-5 cheaper options available) On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:50 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote: I’m trying to put a “box” system together for our house POP sites and need help with the DIN stuff and UPS. Can you guys give me an idea or example of the following? I want to take standard AC 15A in from a breaker outside the box. And using maybe one or two 12v 105AH AGM batteries, supply 50v 6A up the side of the house. I have never ordered DIN parts like this, guess I don’t have to use DIN, but would be nice. Having a problem finding a DC to DC converter that takes 12v and upconverts to 50v 5-6A. Is this the cost effective method? Something like this: Monitoring Sitemonitor Base Unit II SMON Base II 1.00 $100.00 $100.00 UPS Monitor Sitemonitor Int MorningStar MeterBus SMON MorningStar 1.00 $60.00 $60.00 UPS Charge MorningStar Sunsaver Dual 1.00 $165.00 $165.00 Battery AGM Deep Cycle 105AH NPP FT12-105AH 2.00 $225.00 $450.00 DIN Parts like DC fuse/breakers and trunk stuff 1.00 $100.00 $100.00 DC 12v to 50v 5A 1.00 $150.00 $150.00 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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