On 01/ 4/11 11:48 PM, Tim Cook wrote:
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Garrett D'Amore <garr...@nexenta.com
<mailto:garr...@nexenta.com>> wrote:
On 01/ 4/11 09:15 PM, Tim Cook wrote:
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 5:56 AM, Garrett D'Amore
<garr...@nexenta.com <mailto:garr...@nexenta.com>> wrote:
On 01/ 3/11 05:08 AM, Robert Milkowski wrote:
On 12/26/10 05:40 AM, Tim Cook wrote:
On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 11:23 PM, Richard Elling
<richard.ell...@gmail.com
<mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com>> wrote:
There are more people outside of Oracle developing for
ZFS than inside Oracle.
This has been true for some time now.
Pardon my skepticism, but where is the proof of this claim
(I'm quite certain you know I mean no disrespect)?
Solaris11 Express was a massive leap in functionality and
bugfixes to ZFS. I've seen exactly nothing out of "outside
of Oracle" in the time since it went closed. We used to
see updates bi-weekly out of Sun. Nexenta spending
hundreds of man-hours on a GUI and userland apps isn't work
on ZFS.
Exactly my observation as well. I haven't seen any ZFS
related development happening at Ilumos or Nexenta, at least
not yet.
Just because you've not seen it yet doesn't imply it isn't
happening. Please be patient.
- Garrett
Or, conversely, don't make claims of all this code contribution
prior to having anything to show for your claimed efforts. Duke
Nukem Forever was going to be the greatest video game ever
created... we were told to "be patient"... we're still waiting
for that too.
Um, have you not been paying attention? I've delivered quite a
lot of contribution to illumos already, just not in ZFS. Take a
close look -- there almost certainly wouldn't *be* an open source
version of OS/Net had I not done the work to enable this in libc,
kernel crypto, and other bits. This work is still higher priority
than ZFS innovation for a variety of reasons -- mostly because we
need a viable and supportable illumos upon which to build those
ZFS innovations.
That said, much of the ZFS work I hope to contribute to illumos
needs more baking, but some of it is already open source in
NexentaStor. (You can for a start look at zfs-monitor, the WORM
support, and support for hardware GZIP acceleration all as things
that Nexenta has innovated in ZFS, and which are open source today
if not part of illumos. Check out http://www.nexenta.org for
source code access.)
So there, money placed where mouth is. You?
- Garrett
The claim was that there are more people contributing code from
outside of Oracle than inside to zfs. Your contributions to Illumos
do absolutely nothing to backup that claim. ZFS-monitor is not ZFS
code (it's an FMA module), WORM also isn't ZFS code, it's an OS level
operation, and GZIP hardware acceleration is produced by Indra
networks, and has absolutely nothing to do with ZFS. Does it help
ZFS? Sure, but that's hardly a code contribution to ZFS when it's
simply a hardware acceleration card that accelerates ALL gzip code.
Um... you have obviously not looked at the code.
Our WORM code is not some basic OS guarantees on top of ZFS, but
modifications to the ZFS code itself so that ZFS *itself* honors the
WORM property, which is implemented as a property on the ZFS filesystem.
Likewise, the GZIP hardware acceleration support includes specific
modifications to the ZFS kernel filesystem code.
Of course, we've not done anything major to change the fundamental way
that ZFS stores data... is that what you're talking about?
I think you must have a very narrow idea of what constitutes an
"innovation" in ZFS.
So, great job picking three projects that are not proof of developers
working on ZFS. And great job not providing any proof to the claim
there are more developers working on ZFS outside of Oracle than within.
Nexenta don't represent that majority actually. A large number of ZFS
folks -- people with names like Leventhal, Ahrens, Wilson, and Gregg,
are working on ZFS related work at Delphix and Joyent, or so I've been
told. I don't have first hand knowledge of *what* the details are, but
I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
This ignores the contributions from people working on ZFS on other
platforms as well.
Of course, since I know longer work there, I don't really know how many
people Oracle still has working on ZFS. They could have tasked 1,000
people with it. Or they could have shut the project down entirely. But
of the people who had, up until Oracle shut down the open code, made
non-trivial contributions to ZFS, I think the majority of *those* people
can be found working outside of Oracle now, and I think most of them are
still working on ZFS projects. (There are a few "big names" that I
don't know what they are doing precisely -- e.g. Jeff Bonwick.)
You're going to need a hell of a lot bigger bank account to cash the
check than what you've got. As for me, I don't recall making any
claims on this list that I can't back up, so I'm not really sure what
you're getting at. I can only assume the defensive tone of your email
is because you've been called out and can't backup the claims either.
So again: if you've got code in the works, great. Talk about it when
it's ready. Stop throwing out baseless claims that you have no proof
of and then fall back on "just be patient, it's coming". We've heard
that enough from Oracle and Sun already.
Ok, I'll shut up now. But I'm going to completely ignore anything else
you have to say on this topic, as I have a lot more knowledge of what
we're doing at Nexenta than you have.
- Garrett
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