Hello, 140% Full Ack :-) The whole business around "setup" is painfully boring - for most developers and IT pros. Finding someone who is not only willing to get the job done, but also interested in the area of setups or even passionate about the whole process is nearly impossible. If you find someone who really likes to do setups and build processes etc. hire him! (Or forward him to me please)
Best regards, Sebastian Brand sebast...@instyler.com Instyler Software - Software development, deployment and productivity Geisenfelder Str. 53a - 85053 Ingolstadt, Germany - EU VAT ID: DE219712370 Phone: +49 841-4544567 - Fax & voicemail: +49 321-21220152 www.instyler.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@deploymentengineering.com] > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 05:32 > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Interviewing an installation developer > > Back in 2003 I was living in Virginia. I had about 5 years of InstallScript > and > build automation under my belt. > > I was really busy doing a build when I received an unexpected phone screen. > I was really distracted when the interviewer asked how InsallShield handled > locked files. Now I knew all about MoveFileEx() and > PendingRenameOperations but for some reason my mind blanked and I gave > some generic answer about black boxes and white boxes and that you just > select the potentially locked attribute and debug/profile if it ever becomes > an issue. > > The call was my only interview and I ended up getting the job ( in Texas ). I > later asked my boss why he hired me when i really didn't even give him a > good answer for the question. His answer was telling: > > "Because you actually *wanted* to write installs." > > Passion for setup plays a big part when I'm interviewing someone. > > Chris > > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, Sascha Beaumont <sascha.beaum...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > From: Sascha Beaumont <sascha.beaum...@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Interviewing an installation developer > > To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." > > <wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > > Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 10:04 PM When I interviewed for my > > current position I was asked about familiarity with InstallShield, no > > questions about MSI itself. I responded honestly that I had no idea, > > had used it once many moons ago and found it complex, horrible and a > > pain to understand. > > What I didn't > > realize for another 6+ months was that I needed to understand and > > learn the MSI fundamentals - your real question to any potential > > employee should be "are you willing to learn?" > > > > The hardest part about Windows Installer is the debugging, not the > > writing. Rather than having your interviewee write a quick > > installation package, how about having them open an existing package > > in ORCA and review/debug/explain it? Maybe show them an error log and > > ask them what could be causing the issue? (e.g. > > non-deferred CA trying > > to write to HKLM has problems with registry > > virtualization) > > > > Scripted custom actions are a no-no, I would say anyone with any > > "real" setup experience knows this... within 6 months I noticed > > problems with scripts written by my predecessor and within > > 12 months > > I'd pushed to eliminate them completely. (was still using > > InstallShield at this stage) -- I admit I still use VBScript in > > controlled environments such for our build process, however our > > released products are all native MSI with C++ CA's as required (I now > > use #define _USE_RTM_VERSION for all C++ CA's, something that was > > overlooked initially) > > > > I think the best setup developers are not the best programmers, > > Windows Installer is all descriptive, not procedural. This is a *very* > > big generalization based on my own experience... but programmers are > > more likely to write a quick and dirty CA to "get it done" > > than figure > > out why things are breaking, or suggest to the developers that certain > > tasks be done post-install rather than during install. > > > > Windows Installer is easy to learn, just read "The Definitive Guide to > > Windows Installer" and subscribe to the wix-users list and you're on > > your way. The problem I've found is that everyone else who doesn't > > have to write, maintain or debug installation wants to do > > *everything* > > in the MSI, being able to push back and suggest alternatives to doing > > something "in the MSI" is a huge part of my job. > > > > Most people who *think* they know setup, don't. Consider hiring > > someone who can admit they don't know, but is willing and eager to > > learn... training from scratch is easier than retraining someone with > > bad practices ;) > > > > Sascha > > > > > > P.S. Anyone who believes disabling UAC is an acceptable workaround for > > a broken CA should be escorted off the premises immediately :P > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Nathan Stohlmann > > <nathan.stohlm...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > This is probably a little bit off topic but I was > > thinking that this > > > list might have the right people for the discussion. > > > > > > We are doing some interviews for an installation > > developer position at > > > my company pretty soon and we got pretty burned with > > the person who > > > was previously in the role since I think we thought he > > had a better > > > handle of some of the fundamentals of installation > > development than it > > > turned out that he did. In an effort to keep that from > > happening again > > > we were thinking of coming up with some sort of > > exercise that could be > > > done during the interview that would show some level > > of proficiency. > > > Kind of like the classic "Write a sorting algorithm" > > sorts of > > > questions that are pretty common for more general > > development > > > positions. > > > > > > Has anyone had any really good installation > > development focused > > > interview exercises? > > > > > > My initial thought was to write up an installation > > package for some > > > sort of dummy software that had a few little > > requirements and have the > > > candidate verify the requirements were met by being > > able to point to > > > various points of the actual MSI where the requirement > > was > > > implemented. It's tempting to take that a step further > > and put a few > > > not so subtle bugs in the package to see if they catch > > them or not. > > > I'm not sure I can get a machine for the interviews > > though, but I'm > > > not sure if printing out a table dump from the MSI > > through something > > > like Orca would translate well enough. Thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any responses. > > > > > > (And if you're in the Twin Cities metro area and are > > looking for an > > > installation development position, ping me privately > > and I'll see > > > about getting your resume to my manager) > > > > > > -- > > > --Nathan Stohlmann > > > Minneapolis, MN USA > > > nathan.stohlm...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference > > consistently attracts the > > > world's best and brightest in the field, creating > > opportunities for Conference > > > attendees to learn about information security's most > > important issues through > > > interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and > > established companies. > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev > > > _______________________________________________ > > > WiX-users mailing list > > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, > > colocation > > Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best > > network in the business > > Choose flexible plans and management services without > > long-term contracts > > Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a > > phone call away. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation > Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the > business > Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts > Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
