+1, Deryck

On 28 July 2017 at 16:53, Deryck Chan <[email protected]> wrote:

> I agree with Lucy's approach here. We should try to raise this issue
> directly and privately with the museum involved to let them know they've
> made a mistake with the copyright of the object and ask them to correct it.
>
> My feeling is that Tullie House is a small museum with limited staff, so
> they sloppily applied the "no photo because copyright" tag onto the stands
> of any borrowed exhibit and simply forgot that this object is >200 years
> old and therefore no longer copyrighted. Starting the message with
> "copyfraud" catches Wikimedians' attention, but isn't helpful towards
> achieving our outcome of actually getting things into open copyright or
> making sure public domain things don't get restricted.
>
> --Deryck
>
> On 28 July 2017 at 15:52, Richard Symonds <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Trigger warning: sensible suggestions, I know those can be upsetting
>>
>> Might a friendly email to the museum have helped, just explaining the
>> issue and suggesting a solution?
>>
>> On 28 Jul 2017 14:32, "Fæ" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. Just to be clear, this absolutely is a
>>> classic example of copyfraud. To say "I see no evidence of copyfraud
>>> by the BM" is precisely correct, however this is still copyfraud. It's
>>> an example that is very handy for Wikimedia Commons to use to
>>> illustrate its own policies with regard to deletions and allowed
>>> photographs where there are false claims of copyright being made.
>>> Certainly I would be extremely concerned if the Wikimedia Foundation
>>> were in any way funding events or projects in partnership with a GLAM
>>> institution that continues to propagate copyfraud, rather than taking
>>> positive action to stamp it out.
>>>
>>> We can see by simply looking at the photographs that copyfraud is
>>> being committed by the Tullie House Museum, as they give members of
>>> the public tickets for the exhibition, and are fully responsible for
>>> the exhibition itself. I agree it is not clear yet whether the British
>>> Museum have specifically required the Tullie House Museum to use this
>>> particular sign and text. That would be a great question to get
>>> answered.
>>>
>>> I find it highly unlikely that the THM have used a notice that was not
>>> agreed with the BM, in just the same way as the text of the related
>>> labels and posters would be agreed. Despite the same exhibition having
>>> many other artefacts from different museums across Europe and several
>>> objects on loan from personal collections, I could not see any other
>>> signs of this type against anything other than objects on loan from
>>> the BM.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Fae
>>>
>>> On 28 July 2017 at 14:14, Michael Maggs <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > While the text on the labels is obviously wrong, I see no evidence of
>>> > copyfraud by the  BM.
>>> >
>>> > The labels are most likely placed by the Tullie House Museum in a
>>> (confused)
>>> > effort to comply with a contractual term of the loan, under which the
>>> > receiving museum must not allow photography.
>>> >
>>> > Such terms are pretty common where works are sent out on loan,
>>> sometimes to
>>> > protect delicate artworks from flash. Here of course there is no need
>>> for
>>> > such protection.
>>> >
>>> > A quiet word with
>>> > Tullie House Museum would seem the best way forward, first to see
>>> whether
>>> > they are indeed required by the BM to prohibit photography, and second
>>> to
>>> > explain that any such restriction has nothing to do with copyright and
>>> > should not be expressed as such.  Enquiry and education, not shaming.
>>> >
>>> > Michael
>>> >
>>> > On 28 Jul 2017, at 13:11, Richard Nevell <
>>> [email protected]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Attempting to embarrass the British Museum is misguided and certainly
>>> would
>>> > not build bridges for future collaboration.
>>> >
>>> > On 28 Jul 2017 13:03, "Fæ" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> The Tullie House Museum in Carlisle has a number of objects on loan
>>> >> from the British Museum,[3] and it appears that it is only those
>>> >> objects that have any restrictions on photography. I took photographs
>>> >> of two of these (without any flash), as the restrictions are
>>> >> shockingly obvious cases of copyfraud, and not for any reason that
>>> >> might protect the works from damage.[1][2] It seems incomprehensible
>>> >> as to why the British Museum would ever want to make copyright claims
>>> >> over ~2,000 year old works especially considering they are not a
>>> >> money-making commercial enterprise, but a National institute and
>>> >> charity, with a stated objective[4] that "the collection should be put
>>> >> to public use and be freely accessible".
>>> >>
>>> >> Does anyone have any ideas for action, or contacts in the Museum, that
>>> >> might result in a change of how loans from the BM are controlled? I'm
>>> >> wondering if the most effective way forward is to make some social
>>> >> media fuss, to ensure the Trustees of the museum pay attention. The
>>> >> reputational risk the apparent ignorance over copyright by the BM
>>> >> loans management team seems something that would be easy to correct,
>>> >> so changes to policy are overdue. My own experience of polite private
>>> >> letters to a Museum's lawyer demonstrates that you may as well save
>>> >> hours of volunteer time by filing these in the bin, compared to the
>>> >> sometimes highly effective use of a few pointed tweets written in a
>>> >> few minutes and shared publicly and widely across social media.
>>> >>
>>> >> Those of us Wikimedians who work closely with GLAMs tend to shy away
>>> >> from any controversy, wanting the organizations to move towards
>>> >> sharing our open knowledge goals for positive reasons. I'm happy to
>>> >> try those types of collegiate ways of partnering, however drawing a
>>> >> few lines in the sand by highlighting embarrassing case studies, might
>>> >> mean we make timely progress while activist dinosaurs like me are
>>> >> still alive to see it happen.
>>> >>
>>> >> Links
>>> >> 1.
>>> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Museum_2nd_c
>>> entury_bronze_jug,_with_copyfraud_notice.jpg
>>> >> 2.
>>> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Museum_Fortu
>>> na_statue,_with_copyfraud_notice.jpg
>>> >> 3. Tullie House, Roman Frontier exhibition:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20161030151228/www.tulliehouse.co
>>> .uk/galleries-collections/galleries/roman-frontier-gallery
>>> >> 4. British Museum "about us":
>>> >>
>>> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20170714042800/www.britishmuseum.
>>> org/about_us/management/about_us.aspx
>>> >> 5. Commons village pump discussion:
>>> >>
>>> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#Brit
>>> ish_Museum_and_blatant_copyfraud
>>> >>
>>> >> Contacts
>>> >> * https://twitter.com/britishmuseum
>>> >> * https://twitter.com/TullieHouse
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Fae
>>> >> --
>>> >> [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>> >>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>>
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