Hi SJ, Just passing along a link shared @Waltercolor during another discussion about paid editing, https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Mois_anti-pub
I completely agree that we need more ways to identify and reverse undisclosed paid editing. For a moment, the WMF's Scoring Platform team was hoping to build an automated model trained on known promotional editing—we suspected that it had stereotypical grammar and other flaws that make it possible to find using this approach. Personally, I think that increasing visibility of paid editing might be helpful, "sunshine" or the threat of showing up in the newspaper might make it feel riskier for clients to decide to pay for these services. In response to Steven's point, we should certainly make general improvements to the editing experience but note that fighting paid editing *is* one of these improvements. Interactions with paid editors and their socks can be exhausting and unrewarding. -[[mw:User:Adamw]] On Wed 8. Sep 2021 at 04:20, Samuel Klein <[email protected]> wrote: > Aha -- I was pointed to en:wp's List of paid editing companies > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_paid_editing_companies>. > (thanks!) This is a great resource and deserves to be better linked. The > page is semi-active - 4 additions in the last month, including the Olaf > case. I've cleaned it up a bit and linked it to the German page. This > really needs some automated scripting and tracking, at the scale of ORES... > > Is there any routine analysis / stats compiled of edits associated with > these orgs, or of their activity online? > > On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 2:19 PM Samuel Klein <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Jan Böhmermann <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_B%C3%B6hmermann> >> published an amazing expose on political WP editing in Germany; it gets >> good around 15 minutes in >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsTaKwyAzI&t=900s>. In the video he >> exposed the workings of a paid editing farm run (by Olaf Kosinsky ( >> Wikidata <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30108329>; CheckUser discussion >> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Umgang_mit_bezahltem_Schreiben/Verdachtsf%C3%A4lle/Olaf_Kosinsky> >> ; archived PR-services site >> <https://web.archive.org/web/20210416110100/https://kosinsky.eu/>), an >> excellent long-time editor with over 3 million edits. >> >> *We need to distinguish paid editing from general COI editing*. Paid >> editing is COI editing by professionals, who have strong external >> incentives to persist, no leeway in the outcome they are aiming >> for, experience in doing this in dozens of cases, and may have colleagues >> who can drop in as 'uninvolved' editors to forge consensus or social >> proof.[1] >> >> This is one of our great recurring challenges, siphoning off both our >> reputation and our community. There are many things we can do about paid >> editing, starting with maintaining *paid-editing metrics and a dashboard* >> of known and estimated paid editing. We can estimate its prevalence by the >> availabiity of services online[2]; and look for patterns of such editing on >> wiki. Even with large error margins, this would be a step above simply >> waiting for outbreaks to be discovered and reacting to the visible bits of >> the iceberg. >> >> What sort of metrics like this do we have already? Who is working on >> such things? >> Since the above video came out, de:wp started a table of WP editing >> services >> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Umgang_mit_bezahltem_Schreiben/F%C3%A4lle#Wikipedia-Web-Agenturen_auf_dem_Markt>. >> It currently includes an initial dozen examples, with no estimate of >> activity (the 1 account known to be associated with each is in most cases >> blocked; but most have active websites soliciting work) This would be >> useful in all languages. >> >> SJ >> >> [1] as Melmann wrote >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_167#Limiting_the_scope_of_COI_edit_requests> >> recently: >> "*in my experience, **all the most difficult edits are WP:PAID >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:PAID>**. Most non-paid COI >> comes from a place of desire to make things better, and often can be >> relatively easily guided towards a better place... [or] it is relatively >> easy to use existing enforcement mechanisms to to correct and ultimately >> control their behaviours. PR professionals, on the other hand, are subtle >> and sometimes downright deceptive, and it takes lots of effort to check >> their edits when most of the time you lack context and expertise and you >> really have to research in depth to see their edits for what they really >> are. I think that one of the fundamental mistakes of the current policy is >> lumping paid editors with general COI editing as paid editors are >> fundamentally playing on a different level in terms of PR expertise and >> incentives*" >> >> [2] Just searching for this online led to ads from dozens of services. >> The first 10 below seem to be clones of the same service (perhaps run by >> the same farm) >> Elite Wiki Writers >> Wiki Curators >> Wiki Genies >> Wikipedia Legends >> Wiki Page Writing >> Wiki Page Creator >> WikiProfs >> Wiki Specialist LLC >> Wiki Writers Workshop >> Wikipedia Publisher >> Wikipedia Services >> 360 Ghostwriting >> Contentfly >> Otter PR >> Premium Content Writing >> ReputationX >> Upwork >> >> >> > > -- > Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266 > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/7YUU6NFVERF6ZKWKKZXQV3VONDQ55TWS/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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