I for one very much appreciate that the moderators put Dan on moderation. I support sanctions for insulting and rude behavior. Peter--if you are looking for exact, quantitative criteria, you aren't going to get it. This is about impact of communication on the receiver, not specific words used by the sender. I know that I sometimes come across as being uncivil and/or disrespectful. I appreciate when someone points out a specific example, because that provides me an opportunity to change to more civil- and respectful-sounding communication, which will have a better chance of succeeding (in whatever the purpose of my communication is).
Many posters seem, like Peter, to want quantitative, legalistic, binary "right/wrong" guidance. Considering the gender identities "man" and "woman", this preference is more typical of men than women in "Western" civilization. Many women (and some men) prefer more qualitative, contextual, nuanced guidance. (I don't know prevalences for other gender identities.) I think it is important to understand that our personal preference is not automatically the preference of others. Personally, I hope the moderators are considering moderation for several posters beyond Dan. Paul --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review From: "Asaf Bartov" <[email protected]> Date: 9/11/20 2:46 am To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <[email protected]> No, it is not "forbidden words" that are the problem, and we have no intention of maintaining a list. We expect list subscribers to maintain civil discourse, which does include avoiding vulgarity, and expressing oneself with respect to both one's interlocutors (or addressees of criticism) and the broader audience. Happily, this is something more than 99 percent of subscribers manage to do without effort. As I have repeatedly clarified, respectful discourse absolutely does not preclude criticism. Indeed, it is liable to make the criticism more likely to be heard. A. On Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 12:26 Peter Southwood <[email protected]> wrote: > Is there somewhere we can refer to the list of offensive and unacceptable > expressions, and how they are determined? > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Anders Wennersten > Sent: 11 September 2020 10:33 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review > > There are many of us on this list who have given the feedback we find > that expression offensive and unacceptable. > > Do not forget the readers of this list comes from may different cultures > and if you and the people close to you find it "acceptable" it is not a > valid judgment for all, and why do you want us to leave this list just > so you can use a language like that. (I certainly would if that was > accepted as a norm) > > The language on this list is English, it means we non-native have to > adjust our entries to a unfamiliar language. It mean we have to limit > our means of expression (we will not be experts on nuances). You who > are native English speaker have all the advantages, would it then be too > hard for you to adjust you language to what is acceptable to us others? > > Anders > > > Den 2020-09-11 kl. 09:31, skrev Benjamin Ikuta: > > > > Please, enlighten me. > > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:39 PM, Ziko van Dijk <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Am Fr., 11. Sept. 2020 um 08:07 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Ikuta > >> <[email protected]>: > >>> Is there some context that makes this much worse than it seems, or do I > have a deeply flawed understanding of civility? > >> Well, are you open to consider the possibility that the latter might > >> theoretically be the case, at least partially? > >> Kind regards > >> Ziko > >> > >> > >> > >>> a.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: [email protected] > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
