And that is where the broader Wikimedia movement could come in, to provide that pipeline of rigor and reliability, right? I don't know a solution either, but the question for the strategy is not whether we have a solution right now. The question would be whether the movement should work towards finding a solution through our ecosystem (or even beyond), and support that. Maybe at the end of this process, some information may end up on Wikipedia - if the process proves to be reliable enough. And maybe not.
I also agree with the nuance by Charles, that we're talking about many different types of knowledge - some of which may be more suitable than others. Lodewijk On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, but if oral tradition is recorded at the academic standard, why should > we be the first publication venue? Usually these people just publish books > in academic publishing houses. > > Cheers > Yaroslav > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:51 PM, Peter Southwood < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > There may be a way to do it on another project designed for the purpose, > > but that cannot be English Wikipedia, and I doubt that any project that > > allows anonymous editing could manage it credibly. Oral tradition would > at > > least have to be sourced to the teller, and would have to be recorded by > a > > reliable and identified recorder, who can be held responsible for their > due > > diligence. This would not be an easy thing for a crowdsourced project, > but > > anything less would be like a magnet for everything we don't want. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Chandres Wikipedia > > Sent: Wednesday, 04 October 2017 9:25 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update - > > Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25) > > > > I do not have a perfect solution to introduce oral traditions in > Wikipedia > > today, but I’m convince that we need to find a way to do it. > > > > Just to give you an illustration: > > > > Today ,a significative amount of African topics in the Wikipedia in > French > > rely only on the work of only few French historian. Without saying they > are > > not honest, I find difficult to consider that there words have really so > > more value than the words of the Ancient of the African tribes. > > > > We know for sure than oral tradition will include bias, but do not forget > > that the « traditional western historian work » are not exempt of bias > too. > > > > Charles > > > > PS: IMHO, I find offensive the way you define oral traditions, but it may > > be caused by a misconception from my part. > > > > These are the definition I use for urban legend and oral tradition, very > > different each other I think. > > urban <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/urban#English> legend < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/legend#English> (plural urban legends < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/urban_legends#English>) > > A widely circulated story <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/story> that is > > untrue <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/untrue> or apocryphal < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apocryphal>, often having elements of > > humour <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/humour> or horror < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/horror>. > > oral <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oral#English> tradition < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tradition#English> (countable < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#countable> and > > uncountable <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary# > uncountable>, > > plural oral traditions <https://en.wiktionary.org/ > > wiki/oral_traditions#English>) > > Cultural <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/culture> material transmitted < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transmit> orally from one generation < > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/generation> to another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 4 oct. 2017 à 21:11, Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]> a écrit : > > > > > > You might be right, and the goal is indeed to differentiate between > > > them. I just do not see how it could be implemented in practice. A > > > legend is a legend, be it urban or not. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:09 PM, Chandres Wikipedia > > > <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >>> to Wikipedia. They might still be a separate WMF project, which is > > >>> likely to be problematic (since it is really difficult to > > >>> differentiate between say folk tales and the oral traditions which > > >>> state that Earth is flat and that all US presidents report to the > > >>> Zionist Occupational Government), > > >> but > > >>> > > >> > > >> For me, your definition of oral tradition is the one of « urban legend > > ». > > >> TO my understanding, oral tradition refer to culture where the > > >> History of the tribes/nation/people is transmit only by a spoken way > > >> and never put on paper. Am I wrong? > > >> > > >> charles > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] > > >> Unsubscribe: > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > http://www.avg.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
