I'm really grateful for your note, Asaf You comprehend my messages 100% right. Perhaps even more than that, as I'm just unable to verify whether I'm a troll (or not, hopefully).
But as to the best of my belief I'm ready to face the fact, that I'm the troll (how can I know that for sure?) so I'm ready to stay against any criticism of being a troll - all kinds of 'duck test' etc., while our board prefers just to > *halt the debate rather than face the **criticism* and said transformation of WMUA central mailing list is just one step in a row (a very long one - a chain of that "multiple previous rounds"). Well, I was not going to complain (or something like that) - I was mainly verifying the precedents as I assured other WMUA members that we have something unprecedented at all (in all Wikipedia movement at least). ...and I'm still not complaining :) Yes it's nobody else but we, WMUA people, should (Have to, MUST) overcome all tough issues by ourselves and a lot of that our problems are rooted in post-USSR situation (I was born in 1956, that's just 3 years after Stalin' death so I know what I'm talking about) hence they might appear to be pretty (or even too) ...*specific** *for Wikimedia CH (so for Manuel), WMNL (so for Ziko) etc. - with all due respect to Manuel, Ziko and others. And please, PLEASE don't think that WMUA is something very bad, and even not all of our Board members (we have 7 of them) have said problems with facing criticism ;) Now we're in 'full ahead' mode to start WLM'2013 and preparing to make our Wiki loves Earth (WLE) initiative [1][2][3] really international (it was presented in Hong Kong recently and they say it was estimated rather well) and ... and ... and ... as well ;) ___ Obviously I'm not closing the topic and all and every further comments, insights, ...peer reviews will be highly appreciated! Thanks again, Asaf!!! Sincerely, Pavlo Shevelo Proud member of WMUA [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Earth_2014 [2] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/02/13/wikimedia-ukraine-new-photo-contest-wiki-loves-earth/ [3] http://wle.org.ua/english/ On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Asaf Bartov <[email protected]> wrote: > When one reads the links offered by Pavlo, the picture is clearer. The > board is trying to suppress on-list criticism with this step, claiming > "people" (no doubt including Pavlo) are "trolls and spammers". I think we > all know things are often not black and white, and that accusations of > trolling are sometimes used by people to brand legitimate opponents (and > sometimes people really are trolls). > > I can't presume to know whether Pavlo is a troll or not, or what the > subtance of his criticism is, and how justified it may be. WMUA's current > leadership elected to (try to) halt the debate rather than face the > criticism (no doubt they have engaged in multiple previous rounds as well), > and we can assume the WMUA membership will judge their action as they see > fit. > > But let's not pretend this is a question of a sudden need to set up a new > mailing list. That's not what this is about. > > A. > > > On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Pavlo Shevelo <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > WikimediaCH-l list to become a closed list due to some issues we > > had with private information (unwillingly) disclosed on that list. > > > Nobody questioned that change. > > > > The said WMUA mailing list from the moment of creation was closed for > > anybody else but WMUA members. > > I was one of the members, who questioned that but after explanation > > "private > > information might be (unwillingly) disclosed otherwise" I decided that > it's > > not really a matter (or an important one) and stopped questioning. > > > > > the chapters community / members have an appropriate place to conduct > > their work > > > > Yours wording is exactly like that (above) while "what Nemo questioned" > is: > > > > "do the member of the chapter have a suitable and working place where to > > discuss among themselves to carry out their duties and rights as members > of > > the chapters?" > > > > The main issue is what is "work" for you (and "duties" for Nemo)? > > The point of WMUA Board is that members MUST do their "work" ("carry out > > their duties") and execution of Board ruling is part of that. So any > > critics of Board (or separate Board members) is distraction from the work > > :) > > > > The Nemo mentioned "and rights" in his questioning, so I believe his > > perception is closer to mine (while critics or at least questioning - is > > one of the rights for me and I guess for Nemo as well). > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Manuel Schneider < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Am 18.08.2013 17:47, schrieb Pavlo Shevelo: > > > > is there any precedents known, when chapter Board do some alike > > rulings? > > > > > > all precedence known to me have been much less restrictive actions, > such > > > as the WikimediaCH-l list to become a closed list due to some issues we > > > had with private information (unwillingly) disclosed on that list. > > > Nobody questioned that change. > > > > > > > Does it seems appropriate? > > > > > > My personal opinion is that the board may decide so, under > consideration > > > of what Nemo questioned: That the chapters community / members have an > > > appropriate place to conduct their work. This may be disputed as it was > > > the formerly open and public list which has been closed but it could > > > also be considered that WikiUK-l could act as such place as well. > > > So from my point of view it is really up to the community at > > > WikimediaUA-l and WikiUK-l whether WikiUK-l is an appropriate > > > replacement or if another list is needed due to this change. > > > > > > /Manuel > > > -- > > > Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens > > > Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > -- > Asaf Bartov > Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org> > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! > https://donate.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
