(re:Mike & Harry) It's true that Wikimania does make some things that could be done easier, but as Harry says, it's part of what we (the Wikimedia community) are looking for. As noted before in other conversations, it would be way easier to set up conferences in the same few locations (say, every year in a major city in the USA) but it would be really distant from our goal of being more diverse (besides many, many other considerations). But yes, many things are being needlessly reinvented over and over again (which, in our case, was mostly out of a great deal of trust from everyone else, confident that we would be able to sort everything out; I'm sure the same has happened to other teams)
Unfortunately I couldn't assist to Esino Lario, but they had a good idea in this regard in Mexico City: I recall the 2016 team asking former Wikimania organizers for feedback. I gave my remarks on volunteer support but two major problems arose immediately with some solutions they wanted to implement/emulate: 1) Some things were either already past due for the 2016 team (11 months is sometimes not enough) or were just in time to be included in their timetable, with little to no time for adjustments; and 2) Some questions could only be vaguely answered, because the information would be available later on, or was still undecided. So in general there's not enough communication between Wikimania organizers for things like this. Why don't we organize some sort of Brain Trust with former organizers to give opinions and advice **in a timely manner** to whoever is the current organizing team? It can be a really easy setup (maybe nothing more than a small mailing list and/or skype chat) where the current team can ask "Hey, X: you dealt with this before. How did you do it?" Any former organizer who is interested can just throw their name in the hat with his/her area of expertise and that's it. Even more, since the proposed Trust is just an advisory team (meaning that the current organizers don't necessarily have to act upon the advise in the exact described way) this communication can even become private and informal. I think something like this is needed to improve future Wikimanias without compromising on those small things that make it a non-generic event. If we can manage a solution like this, sign me up. On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Harry Mitchell <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't agree with you completely, Mike (but you're probably used to that > by now! ;) ) - if you buy a generic conference package you get a generic > conference. What's the point of flying all the way to London, for example, > for a conference on an industrial estate in Hounslow? Sure, you might be > literally spitting distance from Heathrow and you're not short of options > for hotels, but it doesn't have that uniqueness that makes Wikimania what > it is. Likewise, the evening programme and all the ancillary stuff is as > much part of Wikimania as the talks; in fact I'd argue that the social side > is far more important and probably much more fertile ground for ideas than > the talks themselves. > > You *do* have a point, though, that we reinvent the wheel every year with > a new team. I can't remember specifics, but there were several times in the > buildup to 2014 that I thought "this can't be the first time a Wikimania > team has had to do this". Not everything will be the same, but we should > get better at sharing and learning from our experiences so that future > teams aren't left wondering "how did they do this in London or Mexico or > Esino?". > > Harry Mitchell > http://enwp.org/User:HJ > +44 (0) 7507 536 971 > Skype: harry_j_mitchell > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Michael Peel <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I don't want to take away from the huge amount of work and movement >> contributions that were made by the Mexico, London, and other Wikimania >> teams, but: it's worth noting that we could organise a Wikimania with the >> same number of attendees for a lot less amount of volunteer time (and also >> money). >> >> ~1,000+ people conferences take place quite often each year, across many >> different academic, non-profic and commercial communities, and there are >> dedicated conference venues that will just sort out everything - the venue, >> the internet access, hotel options, the whole lot. They are often located >> near to international airports, or major cities, which are easy to get to >> from across the globe. If we wanted to, we could go as far as saying "we're >> meeting at this venue, delegate fees are X per day, here is the list of >> nearby hotels that you can stay at, it's up to you to sort out everything >> else yourself" - and that would lead to a very cheap Wikimania for the WMF >> and the local Wikimedia organisation. >> >> Rather than going for those options, we've preferred to keep things >> complicated - we chose not to use standard conference packages, instead >> picking specific locations and approaches for each Wikimania. We travel to >> out of the way locations. We bolt on different bespoke activities (such as >> evening events, and outreach activities) to those conferences that increase >> the complexity of the event. We ask volunteers to take on duties that we >> could ask attendees to take on instead (photographs/organising sessions, >> etc.). We vary the structure of each conference to include the preferences >> of each organising committee. We organise a scholarship process. >> >> If we're going to do a rational cost-benefit analysis of Wikimania, >> including all of the options about regularity, intentions, etc., then >> perhaps we should also consider the basics - what's the minimum amount >> that's needed to hold such an event, leaving aside the optional extras? >> What can we keep constant between each Wikimania: can we keep the program >> organisation, the approach to evening events, and the add-on events the >> same each year (saving volunteer and staff time)? Or perhaps we should >> acknowledge the extra work that goes into each bespoke Wikimania, and >> celebrate that? Or seek an intermediate solution - sort out the venue, >> program, etc., and leave hotel/food options up to attendees? Or perhaps >> each Wikimania should keep vying for the title of the best Wikimania ever? >> >> Thanks, >> Mike >> >> On 10 Jul 2016, at 23:42, Ivan Martínez <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> It's a lot of work, last week before Wikimania Mexico the coordination >> team slept less than 4 hours each day. But for me being honest was not a >> shaming time, was great. And we can have people intended to keep Wikimania >> annual and run similar challenges. >> >> Harry, we had here 72 committed volunteers working without paid and we >> are not a major developed economy. >> >> Darius, I think that "motivations criris afterward" must also be >> considered in the planning and prior call for Wikimanía volunteers and can >> be avoided. In Mexico we always tell to people that we did not want them >> just for giving the best of themselves for three days around, but we wanted >> to keep them with Wikimedia mission. A month ago we broke a Guinness record >> and 60% of attendees were Wikimania volunteers. It is a matter of long >> preplanning, I think. >> >> 2016-07-10 15:03 GMT-05:00 Harry Mitchell <[email protected]>: >> >>> Yes, London was big, and the two Wikimaniae since have been on a smaller >>> scale, but I'm not sure a ~1,000-person conference is significantly less of >>> a headache than a ~2,000-person conference, and actually I'd wager that >>> Esino was more logistically complicated due to the location - for example >>> having to arrange buses to Varenna and the airports (which were around 50 >>> miles away). Not that that should be taken as a criticism of the Esino team >>> - they did a fantastic job in a beautiful location and I'd love to have >>> another 'scenic Wikimania'. >>> >>> I'll let Ed tell you about what he did. I know I saw him spend a lot of >>> time dealing with the venue and the programme and discussing finance and >>> logistics, but I'm sure there are lots of other things. Speaking for >>> myself: those volunteers in red shirts? That was my contribution. The >>> volunteers on the helpdesks, running sessions, meeting and greeting, >>> tweeting, photographing, doing odd jobs and generally making things run >>> smoothly ... I recruited most of them*, got to know them, trained them, >>> split them into teams, did a lot of the scheduling (easier said than done - >>> lots of moving parts!). During the conference, they looked after the >>> attendees, and I looked after them. And I've never worked with such an >>> amazing group of people. It was a truly humbling experience, but it was a >>> lot of work. At one point I was receiving something like 200 emails a day >>> just relating to Wikimania and was having to set aside time at the start >>> and end of the day to answer the ones that didn't require an immediate >>> response. I also devised the scheme of reporting and emergency/contingency >>> planning for volunteers (thankfully this wasn't necessary, but the death of >>> a Wikimedian at that year's Wikimedia Conference was painfully fresh in our >>> memories), and spent a lot of time trying to drum up and channel interest >>> within the UK Wikimedian community. I'm sure there were other things, but >>> those roles alone took up a significant amount of time - certainly in >>> excess of 40 hours a week in the final few weeks before the conference. >>> >>> *(Not wishing to take credit from anyone else; I worked closely with >>> lots of other people on all these things, particularly Hera Hussain, and >>> Fabian Tompsett and Chris McKenna who were at the time employed by >>> Wikimedia UK.) >>> >>> >>> Harry Mitchell >>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ >>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971 >>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Lodewijk <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Harry, Ed, >>>> >>>> Of course London was a bit of an exceptionally big Wikimania - but did >>>> you evaluate your effort somewhere, and note what you spent your time on >>>> somewhere? Just to get an impression which components take most effort (as >>>> Dariusz suggested)? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Lodewijk >>>> >>>> 2016-07-10 20:25 GMT+02:00 Harry Mitchell <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> I agree with Ed here. Organising a conference of this size is a huge >>>>> undertaking to ask of volunteers. I wouldn't want to see Wikimania go down >>>>> the road of being organised by a team of professional conference >>>>> organisers >>>>> because then it would lose the organic community feel that makes it so >>>>> special, but we shouldn't rule out stipends for the local team. Otherwise >>>>> we end up with the slightly odd situation of the WMF or local chapter >>>>> bringing in paid staff to fill gaps left by volunteers but the volunteers >>>>> still effectively working full-time unpaid. I had a much smaller role in >>>>> 2014 than Ed and others and was fortunate to be in a position to dedicate >>>>> a >>>>> lot of time to it; I certainly wouldn't be in a position now to devote as >>>>> much time as I did for free and without wishing to speak for Ed, I doubt >>>>> he >>>>> would be either even if he was willing. >>>>> >>>>> If that's a problem in major developed economies, I'd imagine it would >>>>> be even more of a problem in places where people have less disposable >>>>> income. >>>>> >>>>> Harry Mitchell >>>>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ >>>>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971 >>>>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 4:22 PM, Edward Saperia <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for that comment, Dariusz; >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikimania London took over two years of preparation, and occupied me >>>>>> full time for six months in the run up to the event. It's a massive >>>>>> undertaking, and in retrospect it seems deeply unfair to expect >>>>>> volunteers >>>>>> to do this. >>>>>> >>>>>> There was a bidding process, so there was heavy pressure to >>>>>> minimise/understate the budget - which mostly comes at the cost of the >>>>>> volunteers. I think the community just has to be more realistic about >>>>>> what >>>>>> it costs to put on a 1000+ person event. >>>>>> >>>>>> Were I to do it again I would absolutely include subsistence for the >>>>>> organising team in the budget. It needs professional commitment and >>>>>> professional skills, even with WMF staff support. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do think that the movement deserves an annual event, and >>>>>> particularly that the WMF should capitalise on it more from a comms >>>>>> perspective. Wiki*edia is a significant entity and we should be >>>>>> presenting >>>>>> ourselves as such. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Edward Saperia* >>>>>> Conference Director Wikimania London >>>>>> <http://www.wikimanialondon.org/> >>>>>> email <[email protected]> • facebook >>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia> • twitter >>>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia> • 07796955572 >>>>>> 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> In the same time, I've seen the following problems over the years, >>>>>>> not directly linked to the financial cost (which in the face of our >>>>>>> relative financial stability can be justified by the benefits, >>>>>>> depending on >>>>>>> how we define them): >>>>>>> - huge WMF staff involvement (most Wikimanias run smoothly also >>>>>>> thanks to countless hours put in by the staff), >>>>>>> - huge volunteer local organizers involvement (in fact, my >>>>>>> observation is that many chapters organizing WIkimanias suffer from a >>>>>>> motivation crisis afterward). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While we can get the money (at least for now), the human involvement >>>>>>> cost is something I would not dare to dismiss just by emphasizing the >>>>>>> benefits of Wikimania for the movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instead of discussing whether we should have a Wikimania every year >>>>>>> or not, perhaps we should try to list and discuss the reasons why it is >>>>>>> such a big strain? If it is clear that we can't afford it every year >>>>>>> (because of the human cost, probably more importantly than the >>>>>>> finances), >>>>>>> the decision to break with the annual format will be a natural >>>>>>> consequence >>>>>>> of such an analysis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dariusz Jemielniak ("pundit", a current Trustee). >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Iván Martínez* >> >> *Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid * >> >> // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener una >> moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado. >> // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: https://donate.wikimedia.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > -- "Imagina un mundo en donde cada persona del planeta pueda tener acceso libre a la suma total de todo el conocimiento humano. Eso es lo que estamos haciendo."—Jimmy Wales <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Wales>. Socio de Wikimedia México <https://mx.wikimedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1gina_principal>. [image: Andrés C y C on about.me] Andrés Cruz y Corro about.me/andycyca <http://about.me/andycyca>
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