In my view web2py level plugins open the doors to a lot of portability and incompatibility problems. That is what web2py tries to avoid by making every app complete.
On Mar 13, 11:37 am, Thadeus Burgess <thade...@thadeusb.com> wrote: > When would an app level plugin get executed? > > What If I have code I want to execute AFTER plugins? > > What if I need a plugin to execute after another plugin, how do you > control this? > > -Thadeus > > On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 9:25 AM, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote: > > If I understand you are asking for a web2py level plugin system vs an > > app level plugin system. This has nothing to do with relocation of > > plugins under an app subfolder. Am I correct? > > > On Mar 13, 5:36 am, selecta <gr...@delarue-berlin.de> wrote: > >> If it is possible I am in favor of relocating plug-ins to an extra > >> folder since this would ease my development a lot. > >> I develop plug-ins for multiple apps (e.g. a tracker plug-in) and I > >> use version control. Right now I have to decide which project is > >> taking control of developing the plug-in. It works for now but I will > >> soon be at a point where I have two separate project with different > >> people that both should help to develop the same plug-ins. An extra > >> folder for the plugin would allow the plug-in to be under independent > >> version control from the rest of the application. > > >> Other than that I really like the current plug-in system. It is just > >> like developing a normal web2py app, simple, nothing new! And if I > >> read the branding discussion right this is what everybody (including > >> me) loves about web2py. I would strongly advise against any solution > >> that requires me to gain extra knowledge to create plug-ins. > > >> On Mar 12, 7:08 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote: > > >> > I think this is a different issue. If you relocate plugins but you > >> > still have all code in plugins/<name>/models/<something>.py then they > >> > would work no differently than now (they would be executed in > >> > alphabetical order with the plugin name). To do what you ask you would > >> > have to put plugin code in modules and import them (something you can > >> > already do). The problem is that you would have to be very explicit > >> > and import plugins. Installing them would not be enough and that I do > >> > not like (at least not in the general case). > > >> > On Mar 12, 10:36 am, Thadeus Burgess <thade...@thadeusb.com> wrote: > > >> > > If all plugins are designed to be class-like, then your example of > >> > > plugins just need to inherit. > > >> > > The only reason I would be in support for logically changing the > >> > > location of plugins is the one of dependencies. > > >> > > Meaning, if you have to specify to web2py when to load a plugin, and > >> > > in what order... it can handle the dependencies and execute the needed > >> > > ones first. > > >> > > Dependencies are not hard, its quite simple to write some code to do > >> > > this (as I do in py2jquery to handle javascript dependencies). As > >> > > Massimo said, the difficulty is in the bytecode compiling. > > >> > > I am not convinced there will be any overhead (the slowdown is the 99% > >> > > database any ways). It just means web2py will need to be "smarter" > >> > > about where stuff is. > > >> > > -Thadeus > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:52 AM, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > The problem with framework level plugins is that if you pack the app > >> > > > and unpack somewhere else then it will not work without the > >> > > > "framework > >> > > > level" plugin installed separately. I do not think that is something > >> > > > to encourage. Moreover different apps may reply on different versions > >> > > > of the plugin and/or need different configuration. > > >> > > > Anyway there are two things that can be done at framework level: 1) > >> > > > put models in web2py/site-packages 2) framework level models can be > >> > > > defined in modules and put there also; 3) framework level views and > >> > > > static file can be stored in a new app designed at hoc for this > >> > > > purpose and other app can use them too. > > >> > > > Massimo > > >> > > > On Mar 12, 8:36 am, Alex Fanjul <alex.fan...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> Just to clarify it: > > >> > > >> Do we able to conservate my app (rewrited/extended) auth > >> > > >> module/model, > >> > > >> working alongside "superAuth" thadeus plugin, discarding your > >> > > >> framework > >> > > >> plugin and system Auth default one? > >> > > >> Alex > > >> > > >> El 12/03/2010 15:31, Alex Fanjul escribi : > > >> > > >> > Ok Massimo, > >> > > >> > I agree with you in it makes no sense to rewrite a lot of web2py > >> > > >> > code. > > >> > > >> > Apart from that argument in favor, there is another I don't know > >> > > >> > if it > >> > > >> > would be satisfied right now with plugin_name.py convention: > > >> > > >> > -Imagine you write a *framework level plugin* to subsitute auths > >> > > >> > (or > >> > > >> > whatever system feature) views/controllers/models. > >> > > >> > -Imagine thadeusb write another *application level plugin* to do > >> > > >> > the > >> > > >> > same called "superAuth" > >> > > >> > -Imagine I write an application with an *only modules* extended > >> > > >> > auth > >> > > >> > service with some more fields and stuffs. > > >> > > >> > Do we able to conservate my app rewrited/extended auth > >> > > >> > module/model > >> > > >> > over "superAuth" thadeus plugin, discarting system default one? > > >> > > >> > Just thoughts, > >> > > >> > Alex > > >> > > >> > El 12/03/2010 14:01, mdipierro escribi : > >> > > >> >> The location of plugins is not a backward compatibility issue. > >> > > >> >> From > >> > > >> >> that point of view, we could relocate plugin files. > >> > > >> >> The reason I do not want to do is that it is an implementation > >> > > >> >> issue > >> > > >> >> that requires rewriting a lot of web2py code (particularly for > >> > > >> >> the > >> > > >> >> bytecode-compile functionality), that will make web2py slower, > >> > > >> >> not > >> > > >> >> faster, and does not seem to add any new feature (except the > >> > > >> >> relocation itself). > >> > > >> >> The only argument I have heard in favor of relocation is in fact > >> > > >> >> that > >> > > >> >> code will look cleaner with a new plugins location. I do not > >> > > >> >> disagree > >> > > >> >> but to users of admin things will look exactly the same (because > >> > > >> >> of > >> > > >> >> the logical location according to admin is already the one you > >> > > >> >> suggest), to users of the shell models would be scattered and it > >> > > >> >> would > >> > > >> >> be more difficult to identify order of execution, and you will > >> > > >> >> get a > >> > > >> >> little bit of cleanness is user code at the expense of lots of > >> > > >> >> dirt in > >> > > >> >> web2py code (lots of if statements to find out what is where). > > >> > > >> >> I will not do it. If somebody wants to write a fully working > >> > > >> >> proof of > >> > > >> >> concept implementation to demonstrate that 1) it is not slower; > >> > > >> >> 2) it > >> > > >> >> can be done without too much extra complexity in web2py source, > >> > > >> >> I may > >> > > >> >> take the patch. > > >> > > >> >> Massimo > > >> > > >> >> On Mar 12, 4:39 am, Alex Fanjul<alex.fan...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >>> Hi Massimo, > > >> > > >> >>> I haven't said that plugins should have to depend on others, > >> > > >> >>> but they > >> > > >> >>> should be able to access/play with others to make a trully > >> > > >> >>> plugins > >> > > >> >>> central network, the dependencies are resoluble at highly level > >> > > >> >>> with an > >> > > >> >>> exposed convention API like: > > >> > > >> >>> plugin_most_active_users.requires=['comments-1.x.x', > >> > > >> >>> 'auth-2.x.x'] > >> > > >> >>> plugins['tag_cloud'].requires =['tags-1.2.x'] > > >> > > >> >>> Its only an idea. > > >> > > >> >>> The backward compatibility breaks with the heritance folder > >> > > >> >>> structure > >> > > >> >>> (as I though you said), isn't it? > > >> > > >> >>> *App Level: (example: plugin for commets)* > >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/modules/module*.py > >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/views/views*.py > >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/controllers/controllers*.py > > >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/static/statics*.jpg > > >> > > >> >>> *Framework Level (example: plugin for ckeditor Editor, or last > >> > > >> >>> Wes > >> > > >> >>> James > >> > > >> >>> coda helper)* > >> > > >> >>> web2py/plugins/my_plugin/controllers/controllers*.py > >> > > >> >>> web2py/plugins/my_plugin/views/views*.py > > >> > > >> >>> The way to ordering load is down-to-up I think, like kohana > >> > > >> >>> does:http://docs.kohanaphp.com/general/modules,http://v3.kohanaphp.com/gui.... > > >> > > >> >>> Also it's very important the hooks > >> > > >> >>> <http://docs.kohanaphp.com/general/events> & events > >> > > >> >>> <http://docs.kohanaphp.com/general/events> system, as both of > >> > > >> >>> you > >> > > >> >>> (thadeus, Massimo) talked at the end of the chat: > > >> > > >> >>> There is no calling for new Cache system at all...just was an > >> > > >> >>> example... > > >> > > >> >>> regards, > >> > > >> >>> Alex > > >> > > >> >>> El 12/03/2010 5:26, mdipierro escribi : > > >> > > >> >>>> I agree with most of what you say. > >> > > >> >>>> 99.99% of apps use a single database and so will plugins. This > >> > > >> >>>> is > >> > > >> >>>> because they needs auth to do anything meaningful. > >> > > >> >>>> I do not think it is a good idea to have plugins that depend > >> > > >> >>>> on each > >> > > >> >>>> other. dependencies are a mess to manage. In any language and > >> > > >> >>>> any OS I > >> > > >> >>>> ever used. plugins with dependencies are cause for trouble. > >> > > >> >>>> But I agree that we may build groups of plugins that cooperate > >> > > >> >>>> for > >> > > >> >>>> some specific tasks (like share access to certain tables and or > >> > > >> >>>> certain web services). This will happen for plugins geared > >> > > >> >>>> toward > >> > > >> >>>> specific types of apps so we should not over-engineer it now. > >> > > >> >>>> I do not think we need a 2.0 for those things that you asked. > >> > > >> >>>> We will > >> > > >> >>>> get there in small steps and, at this point, I do not see why > >> > > >> >>>> any of > >> > > >> >>>> those improvements should be inconsistent with backward > >> > > >> >>>> compatibility. > >> > > >> >>>> What's your wish list for cache? I never heard anybody calling > >> > > >> >>>> for a > >> > > >> >>>> new cache system. > >> > > >> >>>> Massimo > >> > > >> >>>> On Mar 11, 9:02 pm, Alex Fanjul<alex.fan...@gmail.com> > >> > > >> >>>> wrote: > >> > > >> >>>>> Very interesting and constructive IRC meeting, congrats to > >> > > >> >>>>> all. After > >> > > >> >>>>> reading all text > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py-users" group. 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