John, What do you constitute as a "Big Money Making Project"?
I work for a fairly large company, we use web2py for internal uses. These internal applications generate the company millions of dollars a year in savings by automating aspects of the business. You don't think web2py is used in "Serious Enterprise"! If this is not "Serious Enterprise" then I don't know what the hell is. Would you consider this a "big money making project"? What you really mean to say is you want a big project that is sold for public consumption (like quickbooks) instead of internal usage (like UPS routing software). I also know handful of other developers on this list that use web2py for internal usage. In fact, most of the apps that are created in web2py are concealed behind NDA agreements, so obviously you wont hear anything about them. Your saying "If web2py isn't popular, then its not worth using, but its not advantageous to make the framework popular". Your contradicting yourself from one post to another. Though I agree, the way to make web2py more popular is to make web2py better and let its awesomeness get more users. I am getting to know web2py quite well, unfortunately my time must be devoted to developing my companies internal apps, instead of contributing to web2py. Again, there are many other developers on this list who know web2py just as well. In fact most of the latest commits have been submitted by contributors, Massimo's job lately has only been to approve/disapprove changes and to make sure nothing breaks web2py idioms. -Thadeus On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 5:54 PM, John Heenan <johnmhee...@gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry Massimo, you sound like an unconvincing PR department in damage > control taking its audience for idiots. It is almost enough to make me > want to move away from Web2py. > > A lot of us would feel a lot safer if there was at least one well > known project using Web2py that generates a lot of money. > > Django and Pylons are not as clever as Web2py. But they are used by > serious money making enterprises. > > Linux is safe, it is used in serious enterprise. Python is safe. For > example Google's front end is built on Python. > > We really need acceptance that there are real problems with the long > terms prospects of Web2py based on expected patterns. We don't need > glib answers. Goggle trends only proves Web2py has some measure of > relative popularity entry in the Google search engine. I notice you > did not include Django and Pylons in your trends. Not that it really > matters anyway. > > Just one big money making project using Web2py would be enough to keep > a lot of us happy that Web2py MAY have a real future. > > Web2py represents a serious investment in time for web developers. Web > developers want to know that the investment is worthwhile taking. > Those who employ web developers need to know that the infrastructure > developers put in place can be maintained and built upon. As things > stand, investing time in Django or Pylons looks like a far safer > investment, even though they are not as clever. This needs to be > acknowledged. > > I started using Web2py because I really needed a quick solution. If my > web sites grows and I need to employ people I will seriously consider > porting the web site over to Django or Pylons first, if I don't see > better prospects for Web2py. Rather ironic, use Web2py for > prototyping, not the real world. > > John Heenan > > On Mar 6, 12:08 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote: >> > A) Web2py is not popular, as evidenced by PyCon. >> >> As I argued that is not a good measure of popularity. >> Using google trends I estimate we have passed TG and CherryPy as >> popularity. >> >> > C) Massimo appears angst ridden by the non inclusion of web2py at >> > PyCon to a desired level. Regrettably this still needs to be properly >> > resolved. >> >> LOL. Not true. I just wish PyCon was organized as any of the "other" >> conferences I go to. Where people submit papers and they are evaluated >> by reviewers assigned blindly instead than by interested parties who >> cherry pick what they want to review. >> >> > D) However PyCon is frankly irrelevant and unimportant to web2py and >> > to most of us. >> >> Looking at growth of users I see a continuous exponential growth. >> There is no jump associated to special events. This means that yes >> PyCon is irrelevant as a means to achieve more popularity but it is >> not irrelevant as a measure of such popularity. It is not a good >> measure of popularity (as I argued above) but people perceive it as >> such (you did for example). >> >> Anyway. Please lets' stop brining up PyCon it is not healty. >> >> > E) Projects that depend on a single person are risky, whether they be >> > opens source projects or private propriety projects backed by multi >> > billion dollar corpoation who issues warnings to investors they are >> > dependent on key personnel. >> >> web2py does not depend on a single person. There are at least 50 >> people here who really know how web2py works inside, have contributed >> to it, and continue to improve it. If I were to go stop my involvement >> (and it is not going to happen), they could pick up immediately. >> Currently my job is not so much that of coding web2py as much as >> keeping stuff out. Every one wants to push web2py is this or that >> direction and, in order to keep it consistent with its original >> philosophy sometime I have to say no. That is my job and I do not >> believe this can be done efficiently by a committee. >> >> > F) We cannot reasonably expect Massimo to keep up the pace he is. Also >> > there appears to be little in the way of financial and academic reward >> > for his efforts >> >> Even if I did not it would not be a problem. >> >> > G) Web2py is sufficiently different in style and and approach that the >> > current skill level and interest does not exist to take the load off >> > Massimo and let him just accept or reject patches. This appears to be >> > the Linux model and to a certain extent the Python model. For example >> > Guido do not write the new version of the GIL following the exposure >> > of the 'Beazly Effect'. >> >> Almost all of the changes I commit now are written by other people. >> The logs reflect that. >> >> > H) Massimo is now open to discussion about a foundation. >> >> I am. I am always been. Although for different reasons that you want >> it for. You advocate a legal entity for the purpose of deciding the >> direction of web2py development. I do not. I advocate a legal entity >> for the purpose of better serving users of the framework, not >> developers.of the framework. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "web2py-users" group. > To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py-users" group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
