Thanks, Kirill, I look forward to seeing the results! All the best,
John Blossom email: jblos...@gmail.com phone: 203.293.8511 google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Kirill Kostyuchenko <kisel2...@gmail.com>wrote: > Hello all, > > We still working hard on wave in our company and I can say for sure, > production ready, scalable wave service will cost more, than $100k. Just > because we already spent more than half. P2P and crypted protocol are > really dreams. > > Andrew Kaplanov have done completely new protocol with reconnection > support, server restart, client update support, wave diff support. Multiple > wavelets support which will allow to handle big waves. We almost done > dynamic rendering support. Without dynamic rendering it is impossible to > work with big waves. Production ready service should be absolutelly stable > and fast. And it is impossible to do it relying on the current protocol and > renderer. > > We will announce our work on the wiab.pro in a month or two. You will be > able to try new features and check the stability of service. It is really > more stable with the new protocol, because 90% of errors where in the > protocol. > > If somebody create successfully funded project on kickstarter or so, we can > make our work opensource (new protocol, dynamic renderer, diff support, > search, tags) for the amount about $50k. > > I think, funding of such project more likely, because we already almost > 'did the work'. > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Upayavira <u...@odoko.co.uk> wrote: > > > In case it helps: > > > > http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-month-of-apache-tapestry-5 > > > > A successful, if smaller kickstarter style campaign. May help you > > visualise what your 'give backs' and suggested donation sizes might be. > > > > Note that this took place within an Apache framework without issues, so > > it can be done (not that it should - ultimately tests not my decision to > > make). > > > > Upayavira > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013, at 08:42 PM, Joseph Gentle wrote: > > > Will do. As I said, I don't anticipate starting the kickstarter for > > > about a year, though I want to do preliminary work (prototyping out > > > some of the protocols and such) now. > > > > > > John I agree that (1) and (2) are the most interesting parts. But I'm > > > not sure that this is the right tool to build *everything* on top of. > > > We should start with the platform and get people building stuff on top > > > of it. > > > > > > -J > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:05 PM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > Joseph, > > > > > > > > Thanks for chiming in. I'd be interested in getting crowdsourced > > financing > > > > for this also. We don't have a major corporation funding our > > lifestyles to > > > > enable such work, so we need something. > > > > > > > > I am in general agreement with your overall plan, though as I've > stated > > > > before, once you have 1) and 2) done right then there's so much more > > that > > > > the platform could/should do besides an email replacement. I do think > > that > > > > the "internet of things" is a key opportunity for such a > > communications and > > > > data management model, merged with secure, network-independent > > > > communications. Nkommo can't really move forward without that combo. > > > > > > > > As for the name, all things are possible once it's on Github, it > > seems. A > > > > fresh start might be in order. > > > > > > > > Please keep me in the loop, I'd be glad to help push things in this > > > > direction. Without funding, we're nowhere. > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > John Blossom > > > > > > > > email: jblos...@gmail.com > > > > phone: 203.293.8511 > > > > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> I still really want to make the wave platform we've been talking > about > > > >> for awhile. I just don't have any time because I need to work to > eat. > > > >> > > > >> So I've spent the last month thinking about running a kickstarter to > > > >> fund the work. Christian's email was really timely. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I want arbitrary JSON documents, or arbitrary embedding like we > talked > > > >> about a few months ago. > > > >> > > > >> I want a protocol based on real P2P algorithms rather than the hacky > > > >> mess we have at the moment with trees of servers connecting via an > > > >> XMPP extension > > > >> > > > >> I want the same fundamental protocol to work server-server or > > > >> server-client. The OT stuff should work like git. > > > >> > > > >> No single person can maintain our 500k of legacy java code. I want > to > > > >> write a better version with much cleaner separation of OT protocol > and > > > >> application specifics. I still want a web client, but it should be > > > >> written in pure javascript. > > > >> > > > >> Messages should be cryptographically secure from snooping. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> The way I see it, there's fundamentally three pieces that make up > > wave: > > > >> > > > >> 1. A set of OT primitives which allow peers to generate & interpret > > > >> operations > > > >> 2. A platform on top of (1) for exchanging operations between > > networked > > > >> peers > > > >> 3. An application on top of (2) which is trying to replace email > > > >> > > > >> These pieces should be separate from one another, and usable in > other > > > >> contexts. > > > >> > > > >> I have a clear idea of how we can make (1) and (2) work. The OT part > > > >> we've talked about on the list and I've been slowly prototyping out > > > >> here: http://github.com/josephg/tp2stuff > > > >> > > > >> I have a bunch of applications I want to build on top of a platform > > > >> like this. For example, I want my text editor, compiler & unit tests > > > >> to all talk to one another so my text editor doesn't need > > > >> language-specific completion or syntax checking, and so my friends > can > > > >> jump in and help me code. > > > >> > > > >> I don't know what the best way to build (3) is - but I'm more than > > > >> happy to build the platform that a new kind of email could be built > on > > > >> top of. Maybe the current WIAB design is totally fine for that part > - > > > >> though I want end-to-end encryption. > > > >> > > > >> I don't know when the right time to do this would be. I don't know > if > > > >> I should work alone or if we should put a team together (Hi Ali!). > If > > > >> I were to do this properly it would take about a month of prep to > get > > > >> a kickstarter together, and if it is successful I'd want to quit my > > > >> job to do it. I think it'd take me about 6 months to a year of work > to > > > >> get a stable, secure platform working (probably closer to a year), > and > > > >> I'm also not allowed to stay in the US without an employer on my > visa. > > > >> > > > >> The earliest this will probably happen is the end of the year. > > > >> > > > >> Kickstarter might also not be the right way to fund it. Cryptocat > was > > > >> funded in 2012 mostly by Radio Free Asia's Open Tech Fund[1] to the > > > >> tune of ~$100k. A kickstarter would give us users (great) and > > > >> publicity, but the right private sponsor might also work. > > > >> > > > >> Maybe the most contentious part of all, I don't think I'd want to > call > > > >> it wave. But it really would be the grandchild of what we've been > > > >> working on all this time. > > > >> > > > >> Thats my thoughts. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. As I say, > > > >> I'm keen to build this, but I'm too old to live on ramen in a granny > > > >> shack. This thing we've been working toward has real value, and > could > > > >> be put to great effect if we can actually make it good. > > > >> > > > >> -J > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> [1] https://crypto.cat/documents/report-1213.pdf > > > >> https://www.opentechfund.org/ > > > >> > > >
