Upayavira, Understood, I will provide a link to such an event to everyone here on the list. John
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Upayavira <u...@odoko.co.uk> wrote: > Please do remember, that while in person meetups or synchronous hangouts > can be useful, they are also by their nature somewhat exclusive. > Therefore, please use them with restraint, and keep as much discussion, > and all decisions, here on the list. > > Thanks! Upayavira > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013, at 01:37 PM, John Blossom - Shore Communications > Inc. wrote: > > In-person would be great. I am NYC/Boston area, where is everyone else. > > In > > the meantime much can be done on Hangouts to make in-person as productive > > as possible. J > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:53 AM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Yep, I agree. Where should _that_ discussion happen? > > > > > > -J > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Michael MacFadden > > > <michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > A google hang out amongst wave developers is a great idea. However > this > > > is not a substitute for presenting and discussing the future of OT > with the > > > active research community. > > > > > > > > ~Michael > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 5:32 PM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Joseph, my thought is that we can have a Google+ Hangout and invite > > > >> everyone in the Wave community and beyond interested in OT and > related > > > >> issues. Doesn't have to be perfect, we just need to get the > > > >> dialogue.rolling, it seems. We can always have more. Say Weds or > > > Thursday > > > >> around 1700 UT+1? Pick a number. John > > > >> > > > >> All the best, > > > >> > > > >> John Blossom > > > >> > > > >> email: jblos...@gmail.com > > > >> phone: 203.293.8511 > > > >> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Sounds interesting. Where is this going to be held? It might be > > > >>> interesting for a few people on this list, too. > > > >>> > > > >>> -J > > > >>> > > > >>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Michael MacFadden > > > >>> <michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>> After hooking up with Google for wave. I have been the lead > architect > > > >>> for an OT framework much like the real time drive API being built > at my > > > >>> company. I am encouraging my developers to reengage the apache > > > community so > > > >>> we can actively contribute back. We have also done a in depth > > > literature > > > >>> review regarding OT and have worked with many other teams adding > OT to > > > >>> several projects. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I personally will be chairing the 14th International Workshop on > > > >>> Collaborative Editing Systems (IWCES) at the ACM Computer Supported > > > >>> Collaborative Work (CSCW) conference next February. This workshop > is > > > one of > > > >>> the primary places where leading OT researchers, industry, and open > > > source > > > >>> projects come to exchange ideas. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I think this would be a very good community for you to get > involved > > > with > > > >>> if you are looking at OT. There are a lot of lessons learned, > > > especially on > > > >>> using OT for rich document editing (word, PowerPoint, Vim, etc. ). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I am sure there are more than enough extremely smart folks on the > Open > > > >>> Office team, but perhaps I/we could help out if you are not to far > > > along. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Regards, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ~Michael > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:50 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> Adding Svante Schubert to the thread, from the ODF Toolkit > project. > > > >>>>> He also chairs the subcommittee at OASIS that has been looking > at OT > > > >>>>> for change tracking in ODF. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Michael MacFadden > > > >>>>> <michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On 6/16/13 2:51 PM, "Michael MacFadden" < > > > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Rob, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I would be interested in continuing this conversation. I have > been > > > >>>>>>> working with the top minds in OT for the past few years. I am > > > excited > > > >>> to > > > >>>>>>> hear the OO is interested in an OT supported mechanism. How far > > > along > > > >>> are > > > >>>>>>> you in the process? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> It is very early and mainly happening in the standards committee > at > > > >>>>> OASIS. The ultimate aim is to have something that could work > across > > > >>>>> applications, not just between two OpenOffice instances. So this > > > >>>>> requires a sensitivity to the document model abstraction, to > work at > > > >>>>> the ODF level, not just with an application's internal view of a > > > >>>>> document. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> OpenOffice committers are involved in the standardization side of > > > >>>>> this, as well as LibreOffice and Calligra and Gnumeric, as well > as > > > >>>>> Microsoft. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Initially it is about defining the document model, in a way that > > > makes > > > >>>>> sense to the user. Since tracked changes are visible to the > user, to > > > >>>>> approve or reject, we need it at a granularity that makes sense > to > > > >>>>> them. Then based on those primitives, and the associated > actions, we > > > >>>>> can develop an XML-based notation for expressing the state > > > >>>>> transformations. That gets us to the static/stored form of > > > >>>>> traditional change tracking. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Not in plan officially is the next step, which would be the > protocols > > > >>>>> for exchanging such information in real-time. But it is a > > > possibility > > > >>>>> (even a likelihood) that is informing our design decisions. > We're > > > >>>>> mindful that the real-time collaborative editing is the logical > next > > > >>>>> step and we're trying to lay the right foundations for that at > the > > > >>>>> format level. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> One sub-goal, for enabling the real-time side of this, would be > to > > > >>>>> standardize the protocols at some level, so clients from > different > > > >>>>> vendors could do this kind of collaboration in a heterogeneous > kind > > > of > > > >>>>> way. Is there anything in Wave that would be a good basis for a > > > >>>>> standard? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Of course a perfectly valid approach would be to prototype first > and > > > >>>>> then standardize. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Regards, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -Rob > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>>> ~Michael > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013, at 11:00 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I'm not subscribed to this list, but Christian Grobmeier > pointed > > > me > > > >>> to > > > >>>>>>>> John's post about how OT and Wave could be relevant to > OpenOffice. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I wanted to mention that the idea is being discussed, but at > the > > > >>>>>>>> standards level. The default document format for OpenOffice > is > > > Open > > > >>>>>>>> Document Format (ODF), which is standardized at OASIS and > ISO. (I > > > >>>>>>>> chair the committee at OASIS). We're currently working on > ODF 1.3 > > > >>> and > > > >>>>>>>> as part of that we're adding a new change tracking mechanism > > > based on > > > >>>>>>>> OT. This is the traditional asynchronous change tracking that > > > office > > > >>>>>>>> suites have had for years, but modeled on OT terms. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> And, although not specified at this point, we're also aware > that > > > OT > > > >>>>>>>> enables more interesting modes of collaboration, including > > > >>>>>>>> synchronous/real-time, co-editing, etc. That's the main > reason > > > the > > > >>> OT > > > >>>>>>>> approach is attractive, is that we can have a single model > that > > > will > > > >>>>>>>> work for change tracking as well as co-editing. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Once we get the standard side of this elaborated in more > details, > > > >>> then > > > >>>>>>>> the next step will be to get it implemented in Apache > OpenOffice > > > as > > > >>>>>>>> well as the Apache ODF Toolit (incubating). But the pace of > > > >>>>>>>> standardization is slow, and I wouldn't expect this before > 2014. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Regards, > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> -Rob > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Opinions expressed in this communication reflect the author's > > > >>>>> individual personal view, not necessarily that of an amorphous > > > >>>>> collective. The above statements do not reflect an official > position > > > >>>>> of any organization, corporation, religion (organized or > > > disorganized) > > > >>>>> or national football association. The contents of said note are > not > > > >>>>> guaranteed to have been spell checked, grammar checked or > reviewed > > > for > > > >>>>> metrical infelicities. The contents of this post may not be > suitable > > > >>>>> for those whose native language is not logic. Caution should be > > > >>>>> exercised when operating heavy machinery when reading this note, > or > > > >>>>> even when not reading it. Seriously, heavy machinery is > dangerous. > > > >>>>> Be careful. > > > >>> > > > >
