Unfortunately in this situation the 3rd-party company expects us to receive calls from patients and instead of sending them to voicemail after-hours, we forward the call on to them. That would require us to get permission to "spoof" numbers from tens of thousands of patients.
...or...if the 3rd-party company wasn't completely incompetent, have us set up a SIP or IAX trunk directly to them that does allow us to pass the call to them without going over the PSTN. -A On Tue, Jan 6, 2026 at 2:50 PM Mary Lou Carey <[email protected]> wrote: > There are certain circumstances where caller ID spoofing is allowed. For > example, in the situation where a doctor may be calling a patient after > hours. They can change the doctor's cell phone number to be the phone > number of the medical office the doctor works for. What people are not > allowed to do is to spoof a number that they do not have permission to use. > > What carrier "owns" the number is highly debatable these days because > there's multiple players. > > 1. The ILEC / CLEC / IPES / Wireless carrier that the NPA-NXX-X was > assigned to. > > 2. The carrier who manages the TN under their LRN. (In ported TN > situations) > > 3. The reseller who pays an upstream carrier for the DID service. (The DID > may have been resold multiple times so the OCN associated with the LRN does > not necessarily match the OCN of the carrier that manages the assignment of > TNs. > > Whoever has the direct connection with the end user customer has the > responsibility of ensuring that the TN is not spoofed in situations that > are illegal. > > > MARY LOU CAREY > BackUP Telecom Consulting > Office: 615-791-9969 > Cell: 615-796-1111 > > > On 2025-11-24 12:00 PM, Pinchas Neiman via VoiceOps wrote: > > I think it's pretty clear that we are victims of crediting the holder > instead of the owner, the definition of number ownership, the "Deed", must > be decoupled from holding it. This should not be a matter of provider to > provider verification, but a global record that entity X may use that phone > number for caller ID. > > Side note, hackers are hackers because they view themselves as experienced > troublemakers, the standard cowboy will not give up his career just because > a tech person earns more than him, although some smarter do, and some > hackers are getting smarter in prison. > > > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:30 PM Mary Lou Carey via VoiceOps < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I think the intent to block spoofing is to prevent people from using >> telephone numbers they do not own. I once had a client that had the FBI >> show up on his doorstep because they said they traced a call back to his >> company. The number they were interested in was an unallocated TN in his >> PBX. Apparently someone had gotten ahold of that TN and was using it for >> nefarious purposes. >> >> Hackers are creative, I'll give them that. However, I'll never understand >> why they can't use their skills to make money legally. Why does one need to >> make mountains of money illegally when they can make enough to support >> themselves legally? Many create such a boatload of damage within a small >> amount of time that their poor innocent victims are detrimentally impacted >> by. I guess they don't care who they hurt. One can only hope Karma comes >> calling for them one day and reimburses them ten fold. >> >> MARY LOU CAREY >> BackUP Telecom Consulting >> Office: 615-791-9969 >> Cell: 615-796-1111 >> >> >> On 2025-11-22 08:11 PM, Mark R Lindsey, ECG via VoiceOps wrote: >> >> "Spoofing" is the standard term, even used in FCC docs, to mean that a >> person is placing a call from telephone number X using a voice service S, >> where calls placed from the PSTN to X don't always traverse service S. >> >> Of course this happens in conventional SIP trunking and wholesale >> interconnect *all the time. *It's so prevalent and normal that it's hard >> to even wrap your telecom head around what the FCC and the US congress even >> means. Why would you assume S is a symmetrical service for both placing and >> receiving calls? Does someone really think UPS or Bank Of America or even >> then local Memorial Hospital are seriously placing calls from exactly one >> place, or using a different "phone line" for each outbound call? >> >> And they do understand that it's extremely common. Read some discussion >> in the latest FNRPM from last month — >> https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-25-76A1.pdf >> Attending conferences in this space and listening to FCC staffers, there >> is actually no push that I perceive to eliminate spoofing. But, there IS a >> push to eliminate the blind trust that anybody has the right to call from a >> telephone number, simply because they use it to populate the From header. >> In the latest suggestions from the FCC, what we might see are additional >> steps of vetting to determine you do have the right to place calls from a >> telephone number and the proper name that should be provided on that >> number. >> >> As of today, the "Know Your Customer" policy and practices of legitimate >> service providers will ensure the SP takes steps to confirm the right to >> place calls from the telephone numbers they use as the calling part number >> for outbound calls. >> >> In your example, Twilio was screening your calling party numbers. They >> probably have a list of telephone numbers from which you can call. I'm >> almost certain they have a process by which you can provide evidence you >> have the right to call from those numbers, and they'll update the screen >> list. >> >> Mark R Lindsey >> Member of Technical Staff / VP >> +1-229-316-0013 >> https://info.ecg.co/lindsey >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 19, 2025 at 11:13 Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I'm not entirely up on the whole FCC Caller ID Spoofing crackdown that's >>> going on, but I just ran into a 3rd party service for medical offices that >>> expects us to spoof Caller ID. >>> >>> The service works like this: >>> * I grab my cell phone (123-456-7890) and call my >>> doctor/dentist/medical office >>> * It's after hours and they are busy with other calls >>> * Their phone system turns around and forwards my call to a 3rd-party >>> number (say 111-222-3333) emitting my Caller ID info ("Aaron" <1234567890>) >>> * They see a call come in on 111-222-3333 and know it's for "Dr. Bob's >>> Office", so their system accesses his patient database and looks for my >>> patient record with the phone number 123-456-7890 and someone answers the >>> call saying "Thanks for calling Dr. Bob's office". >>> >>> My understanding is the ability to spoof Caller ID info across the PSTN >>> is going away. >>> >>> I tested, and I certainly can't do it with a Twilio SIP trunk. >>> >>> The main reason I'm curious is I have a customer that has their own >>> phone system that I help them manage (FreePBX linked to Twilio). They just >>> purchased an office that uses a 3rd-party phone provider (Weave) along with >>> this 3rd-party answering service, and they are somewhat upset that I can't >>> make it work with their existing phone system. The third-party answering >>> service doesn't have any way of interconnecting other than spoofing Caller >>> ID over the PSTN to a random number they assigned to the medical office. >>> >>> Are services like this going the way of the dodo? Are they having to >>> set up private SIP trunks between clients to get this functionality? Do >>> some VoIP providers allow you to spoof Caller ID for this purpose under >>> some sort of agreement? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -A >>> _______________________________________________ >>> VoiceOps mailing list -- [email protected] >>> https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> VoiceOps mailing list -- [email protected] >> https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> VoiceOps mailing list -- [email protected] >> https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > -- > *Pinchas S. Neiman* > Software Engineer At ESEQ Technology Corp. > Providing you reliable software solutions for any matter. > 845.213.1229 #2 > > _______________________________________________ > VoiceOps mailing list -- [email protected] > https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > >
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