I am with Peter on this one. I could imagine that we add a sentence to that
effect, too, and I hope Hannes would like to contribute one?

On 11 December 2014 at 14:52, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On 12/9/14, 3:36 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
>
>  Just to explain you a bit more about the concern I have. I am worried
>> that readers less involved in the IETF process (i.e., the audience I am
>> dealing with) suddenly sees 4 recommendations for TLS/DTLS. They will
>> get confused.
>>
>> They get info about MTI from the TLS spec, one from CoAP (if they use
>> CoAP or some other application protocol), another one from the UTA BCP
>> document, and yet another from the DTLS profile.
>>
>
> If you implement CoAP, use what the CoAP spec says.
>
> If you implement XMPP, use what the XMPP spec says.
>
> If you implement IMAP, use what the IMAP spec says.
>
> Etc.
>
> For XMPP, we've written a spec that builds on the UTA BCP (and that
> formally updates the core XMPP spec):
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-uta-xmpp/
>
> We could have similar specs for CoAP, IMAP, etc.
>
> The UTA BCP basically says that this is the best we know at this time, in
> general, all other things being equal. But all other things are not always
> equal. If things are different for your application protocol, then write an
> Internet-Draft.
>
>  Unfortunately, most of the recommendations contradict each other.
>>
>
> That's a strong claim.
>
>  The
>> underlying problem is that certain parts of the spec require changes
>> over time while others do not. The MTI for ciphersuites seems to change
>> somewhat frequently and issuing a new RFC ever time an old ciphersuite
>> becomes out-dated seems to be a challenge.
>>
>
> That's an exaggeration. We will keep this as up to date as we can. Step
> one is to get a first version of the BCP out the door.
>
>  (Of course, the UTA BCP nor
>> the DTLS profile document aim to tackle that problem; just saying...)
>>
>> In any case, getting the embedded community to use standardized,
>> off-the-shelf security protocols is an up-hill battle. Adding confusion
>> isn't going to make it easier for us.
>>
>
> It's unrealistic to expect one BCP to cover every particular application
> protocol, every implementation limitation, every deployment scenario. We
> have done the best we can based on everything we know about TLS in the most
> common scenarios and application communities. If the folks in a particular
> application community have needs that differ, they need to get organized
> and figure out what's best for them.
>
> Hannes, I appreciate your concerns, but I don't see an actionable
> suggestion for what needs to change other than "please remove the
> contradictions and more clearly state that this doesn't apply to the
> community I represent". If you can propose text, that would be appreciated.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Saint-Andre
> CTO @ &yet
>
> https://andyet.com/
>
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