0074060468940215 El mié., 28 de nov. de 2018 11:04 PM, Esther Montes < esthermontes...@gmail.com> escribió:
> Ola buenas noches nomás para darle mi número de cuenta ok gracias > > El mié., 28 de nov. de 2018 10:58 AM, Christopher Schultz < > ch...@christopherschultz.net> escribió: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> André, >> >> On 11/27/18 06:01, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote: >> > I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I >> > have some reservations about this whole translation project. And >> > that is because most of the original messages which I have seen, >> > are really "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public >> > which may be using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a >> > public having to deal specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat >> > configuration files. This public is going to need messages which >> > they can later connect to that code and/or to the configuration >> > files language and/or to the available documentation. And let's >> > face it : in terms of anything computer-related, >> > non-native-English-speakers (such as myself) lost out a long time >> > ago, and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum of English >> > technical computer language anyway, just to understand the basics >> > of their field of expertise. That is not what most of us would >> > culturally prefer, but it is a fact of life. >> >> I would argue that is an exercise in democratization: Tomcat can be a >> project that is actually accommodating to its users (administrators, >> programmers, etc.) instead of being hostile by using log messages that >> are unreadable. >> >> Note that Java itself has error messages translated into non-English >> languages for this very reason. Is there a huge between "io error" and >> "erreur d'entrée / sortie"? Not really. But I know that if I saw an >> error message in French, it would be a lot more difficult for me to do >> my job. >> >> > Now I really apologise to anyone who has already spent a great >> > amount of donated time to achieve the current levels of >> > translations. >> > >> > But, not to mince words, isn't this all in all and ultimately, a >> > big waste of time ? >> > >> > And shouldn't we be looking at more efficient ways of achieving the >> > real main goal of all this, which is basically to make sure that, >> > when something bad happens as a result of using tomcat, the people >> > in charge would get precise and understandable information about >> > what happened, and about where they can find more information >> > helping them correcting the issue ? >> > >> > I'll use an example : Suppose I'm one of these >> > non-native-English-speakers sysadmins or developers, and I find a >> > message in the tomcat logs, such as : "Could not find the main >> > class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit." >> > and I do not really understand what it says. >> > >> > I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above >> > message, and instantly get : French : "Impossible de trouver la >> > classe principale: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le >> > programme va sortir." >> > >> > German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden: >> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird >> > geschlossen." >> > >> > Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal: >> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Programa saldrá." >> > >> > Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy: >> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program zostanie >> > zamknięty." (Note : I don't know anything about the Polish >> > language, just adding it for the fun; but also to ilustrate that >> > the same website provides dozens of target languages.) >> > >> > The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get >> > by this current quite time-consuming one-off (but to remain >> > relevant, regularly repeated and maintained) translation effort, in >> > the perpective of the potential users of these messages ? >> > >> > And if nowadays Google can do that, not only for tomcat but for a >> > host of fields and languages, should it not be possible to >> > integrate some of this logic directly into tomcat, which after all >> > needs a very limited subset of vocabulary to achieve something >> > equivalent ? Or, considering the above examples, should we even >> > bother ? >> > >> > Voilà. I do not particularly like to shock for the sake of it. But >> > I feel that sometimes, someone has to shake the tree to bring back >> > a sense of reality (or, in this case, gravity ?) in this geek >> > world. >> >> The worst part of the above is that, in order to find the code that >> contains the error (if you were able to competently read the code), >> you have to do this: >> >> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main >> class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit.' >> >> Then, finding that no files are found, I have to search for a part of it >> : >> >> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main class: >> ' >> >> Again, no results. >> >> Maybe a bad example. How about this one? >> >> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Unexpected end of stream >> while reading opening client preface byte sequence.' >> >> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties:connectionPreface >> Parser.eos=Unexpected >> end of stream while reading opening client preface byte sequence. Only >> [{0}] bytes read. >> >> Hmm... okay, it's in a properties file. Maybe that gets used in a >> source file? Let's search for that bundle key: >> >> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'connectionPrefaceParser.eos' >> >> ./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties >> ./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties >> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties >> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties >> >> LOL, another good example: the bundle key isn't used anywhere. >> >> But the point is that locating error messages now requires two step: >> find the resource bundle key, then look it up in the code. >> >> I'm not sure how to make that any better. >> >> - -chris >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/ >> >> iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEMmKgYcQvxMe7tcJcHPApP6U8pFgFAlv+5WcACgkQHPApP6U8 >> pFjdAg/+KaQmmtd+VblWRI+zhTcVOPu/OSeBHruVOXPnZ0RhnnVGS5xVciU8XJtq >> Ppl7UWDs9oN24Qrj3Tzf/Vqai0DtqF/JxyIjqc/Q/1YjDVCTZZz57w/1b2fbzTGS >> fNm7I7kByt18lOVdlDgymXDSY2orGsddAvp5Sqku9lrpeyv27nB/lTBThQKxwLQc >> 1FZ8h0PZ835CRvs8jmIR5Zp+dsbh3b64FS2oD5VSkrqX0/Rvn4+bkLycPGNwK6Lc >> JzkGCPTIyiI/ZJObTzb3LR/pIUiBbKUKMokReB2Ohmi9JNrKpfefvJI43xGYXLCx >> Aa1dZVhWoE5ipOfRMWNjmN6g9MFWAwyAdmfANFxZnwbzV3LKwGHUgqIUodilLZKs >> TfHd7TbQSWzrszWBZunxEK0nkUNO/dI5Jzp7/dUARDVrewaJqgDS2XjayYlPrYHD >> m4prHK3i5xkMr2t8HMiKnCfGayvZglgoITyH0fjyT9j0BX4M8LdT36Qa6rfUq7bd >> UI9kSmQB03MKzVyA3fuYiKMjqYmTeqs74w2L1+eNjx7o9RqsdCwggAptKdOldHCP >> 0v2hC1JQSGmYkZUsksdxYtxfx9WT/GfEQN1XMC7wUrjPz1hRCNZWP8sTcnDeNZm/ >> 1w6UaSh51QaztPfjNuDPiFOFlTP5lFso9WfyfWs+0Ckkt4hViw0= >> =q3Tj >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org >> >>
