Em Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:20:41 -0200, Piero Sartini <li...@pierosartini.de>
escreveu:
What concepts exactly?
Starting in the frontend, there are concepts like the static
structure, dynamic behaviour, the Environment and the Assets which are
hard to get. Thats what I remind of fighting with some months ago.
Also the lag of some functionality: select models out of beans (there
is a wiki entry, why not include it into core?!), file system assets,
etc.
There are all Tapestry issues, not Tapestry-IoC ones. I was discussing
Tapestry-IoC.
Static structure, dynamic behaviour won't change because it's Tapestry's
architecture. It allows faster execution and no need to put render state
into the session, allowing way less memory consumption. Its documentation
can be improved, of course. The same can be said about Environment (just a
stack of values) and Assets.
Select models out of beans could be improved. My Tapestry CRUD package has
a solution for that.
in 5.2 I am currenty fighting how to white list my resources... some
default examples to allow pictures, css, etc would be nice. (has been
some time I looked, maybe its now there).
You're talking about a snapshot. This behaviour was changed and now
everything in the context is allowed.
In the backend, it gets more complicated: contributing services,
decorating services, overriding services...
I don't think they're complicated. The hard part is to find what to
contribute, decorate or override. But now we're diving inside Tapestry's
architecture, that is made of many small services to be easy to override.
The documentation can be improved about it.
You should know I've tried ;-) BTW the libraries are spread all over
the web (google code, kenai, github, tap360..).
There are links to them in http://tapestry.apache.org/.
tapestry-cdi, tapestry-jpa2, tapestry-persistence in general (with
transactions ;).
CDI and JPA were released few weeks ago and they were mostly written to be
used inside an EJB container. Implementing CDI is not a piece of cake.
Also, the available examples are hard to understand..
take tapestry-spring. It's poorly commented/documented and IMHO hard
to understand what is going on. Sure, its very little code - but maybe
that is why it is so hard :)
All it does is to provide Spring beans as Tapestry services. :)
I know - but the component library uses prototype, and its not
documented that integrating jquery is easy. There is no jquery module,
etc.
There's not much need for a module. Just add $jQuery.noConflict(); and
properly-written jQuery plugins work.
Yes.. I had, but will try again the next days. The point is: A custom
ValidationDecorator is not documented anywhere. Also it seems a bit
overcomplicated to just implement some custom markup.
You're changing the output generated by some. Try to do the same in
another framework. ;) The documentation could mention it, of course.
Good to hear! One wish: Could you explain RegexAuthorizer and
WhitelistAuthorizer in more detail, maybe with some common examples?
This will be done soon, I guess.
Very good example: Security is another thing I had expected to just
work out of the box in a web framework like tapestry. It does not, and
is not that easy for a new user to come up with a solution (and to
understand the concepts behind the explanations in the wiki).
There are many ways of modeling and implementing authentication and
authorization, so I think it's not a Tapestry responsibility. Of course,
we could have some integration with OpenID, OAuth and some security
implementation.
Another argument: If it is that easy to build modules, where is the
transaction module you want that badly?
1) I'm not paid to work on Tapestry. I wish I was, and I wish this badly.
I didn't have time to write them as I'm and independent developer and I
was trying to make my ends meet. All my time is devoted now to projects
that can help me earn some cash. (By the way, if anyone wants to hire
someone with Tapestry and Hibernate experience to implement something, I'm
here! :)
2) Now we've hit a Tapestry-IoC deficiency: annotations put in service
implementations aren't available in the service proxies. Again, I didn't
have time to fix this.
3) Implementing transaction management isn't so easy, specially when you
want to support pseudo-nested transactions.
Or.. maybe tapestry-ioc gets in your way somehow?
In this specific scenario, #2 above gets in my way. I've never hit another
issue with Tapestry-IoC, and I built many packages on the top of it. You
can see for yourself here:
http://ars-machina.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ars-machina/
Maybe its hard to integrate
with tapestry-hibernate ... or maybe its hard to come up with a
solution that will be useable by other persistence modules as well.
However, it seems to be not that easy :)
Besides the proxy issue, you're wrong: it wouldn't be difficult to
integrate with Tapestry-Hibernate now it would be hard to something that
would work with other persistence options.
I strongly suggest you to not make bold statements about frameworks you
don't know very well. ;) It makes you sound like an uninformed troll, but
I know you're not one, as you made some very good points in this
discussion.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, software architect and developer, Ars Machina Tecnologia da
Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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