I think we are all in agreement that the documentation needs a radical overhaul (and lots to be written).
The next question is, who is going to do it? A while ago someone proposed a book on T5. A small group from here organised a separate discussion group and went off to work on it (I have no idea how it is going. Does anyone know?) Maybe a similar thing should be done w.r.t this current issue? c. -----Original Message----- From: Borut Bolčina [mailto:borut.bolc...@gmail.com] Sent: 21 January 2009 08:58 To: Tapestry users Subject: Re: [T5] improve documentation Hi, also a guide/recipes/good practices/tips/chapter for converting JSP applications to Tapestry 5 would be very welcome. At least a paragraph clarifying questions like: "Can I have JSPs in my Tapestry 5 application or do I have to have two web applications talking somehow to each other?", "How to post a form from JSP to a Tapestry page or vice versa?", ... A guide on clustering. I know this info can be found in many locations on the net, but writing it in Tapestry documentation would imho greatly improve the credibility of the framework for "serious" web applications. I feel tapestry is missing the scope in the market. It is not advertised in any way, nor as a framework which one can use to quickly make a simple news site, as other frameworks (non java) are better at that (so I hear), nor as a framework which is best for large teams and large applications. Just look at the web page for Zend PHP framework (http://www.zend.com). Which page do you think management like more, zend's or tapestry's? Unfortunately sometimes (too often) the arguments of power outweight the power of arguments and the consequence is, well, "We will use the framework which has more flashy homepage!". The community, us, must prove that a simple web application (some forms, administration pages, publishing news, social "crap", etc) can be done without having a PhD in Computer Science. Tapestry relies much on convention over configuration paradigm, that is why the documentation must be excelent. Say, for example http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/tapestry-core/ref/org/apache/tapestry5/corelib/components/Form.html. This page is clearly frightening - look at the first paragraph. So many events and none/few of them has a decent explanation/usage scenario/example. IMO all of them should be properly documented or not mentioned at all. The authorization should have a chapter! Tapestry is a very powerful framework and as such the same thing can be done differently, BUT...why should one have to spend days/weeks to implement a decent authentication/authorization system? There should be a guide for common scenarios like form based authentication. Of course one can hunt for example projects and study the guts of them, which in the end is very rewarding, but time consuming. Newcomers should have clear goals on how to implement such things, without jumping to the wiki and other places and fighting the dependency incompatibilities. -Borut 2009/1/13 Ulrich Stärk <u...@spielviel.de> > Hi all, > > Tapestry's current documentation is very complete, covering almost > everything a developer needs to know to be productive with Tapestry. > Unfortunately this documentation is clustered across several locations thus > making it hard to find information and very hard for beginners to get going. > Sometimes even I am annoyed because I don't find the information I'm looking > for at the expected place. There is the official user guide, which is no > guide in the actual sense of the word but merely a collection of topics > using Tapestry-specific vocabulary as the topics, making it hard for a > beginner to get started. Then there is the tutorial that gets you started > with Tapestry but doesn't go deep enough to know the name of the topic to > look for in the user guide when a problem arises or more information on a > subject is needed. Thirdly, there is the wiki that contains numerous > examples on how to solve common use cases with Tapestry. And lastly there is > the component reference that not only contains documentation for a specific > component but also contains examples on how to use them to solve common use > cases. Today for example, someone on the users mailing list asked for how to > have some kind of a "dynamic component". He wanted to display a certain > component based on the outcome of a function he wrote in his page class. > This question has come up before on the list and because of the "Static > Structure, Dynamic Behavior" paradigm - which is a key principle and is not > mentioned in the documentation but at the bottom of the start page - the > solution is to use the Delegate component with blocks. In the Delegate > component reference documentation there is an example covering exactly that > use case. But it seems that the user wasn't able to find it - either he > didn't look at all or more probably, he looked in the wrong place. How could > he possibly know, that the solution to his use case is documented in a > component named Delegate? > Because I think that the current arrangement of the documentation makes it > hard to grasp the concepts of Tapestry, especially for beginners, and to > quickly find the information one seeks, I propose the following steps to be > taken to improve the documentation: > > 1. Re-arrange the current documentation to not just be an alphabetically > ordered list of topics but instead to be some kind of guide to Tapestry. > Group topics that belong together, start with basic topics and end with > advanced ones. > 2. Print a short description of the purpose of a component next to its link > in the component reference. > 3. Integrate the various documents into a coherent documentation that > follows a red line, beginning at the basics and ending with advanced topics > like manipulation of internal services. The tutorial could be used as a > starting point. > 4. Extend the Tapestry Cookbook. Move solutions to common use cases from > the wiki (if they meet certain quality criteria) and the component reference > there. > > Steps 1 and 2 are easy to realize, steps 3 and 4 need more work. > > What do you think? What are your experiences with Tapestrys documentation? > Do you think the proposed steps would lead to an improvement? What other > aspects of the documentation do you think need improvement and how could > they be improved? > > Cheers, > > Uli > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > ************************************************************************** Experience the British Library online at www.bl.uk The British Library's new interactive Annual Report and Accounts 2007/08 : www.bl.uk/knowledge Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge. Adopt a Book. www.bl.uk/adoptabook The Library's St Pancras site is WiFi - enabled ************************************************************************* The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the postmas...@bl.uk : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. ************************************************************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
