>...
>List Mail User wrote:
>
>> Paul.. None of those pages contain a link. The user would have to
>> >copy-paste or hand-type the url. That would defeat any referrer mechanism.
>>
>>
>> Also, whether cut&paste generates a referral all depends on your
>> browser and the setting used in some (e.g. Opera).
>>
>>
>Yeah, provided they re-enter it in the same window, and their browser is
>configured to generate a referrer for that, it would work.
>But that's hardly very reliable, so most affiliate systems use trackers.
>It makes life easier on the company paying out marketing fees.
>
>> Short of hiring the psychic friends network scotts does not have a way
>> >of tracking these to back to an affiliate. Period.
>>
>>
>> Nope; And if I can find them 6 months later in one chain's pages,
>> would you link to bet they were also referenced by Orchard Supply, Home
>> Depot, Lowes and dozens of other large chains and smaller businesses also.
>Oh my god.. and next, these stores might put up the products they sell
>on their website!!! Oh my god! Affiliate marketing at it's finest! I bet
>if you go to lowes.com you can find a link to buy a bag of Scotts
>fertilizer on!
>
>http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=33330-446-36615&lpage=none
>
>See! It exists! Lowes is an affiliate spammer!
Only if they give your email address to someone else (like Scotts).
Or if they mailed you a newsletter that contained links to other sites, *OR*
transferred any of your personal data to other companies/sites for marketing
purposes and received some kind of compensation for it.
*** Oh my god! They do - See the fourth paragraph at:
http://www.loews.com/loews.nsf/Legal.htm
The one labeled "Links to Third Party Sites".
Looks like it meets federal legal requirements, but smells like
too many lawyers were involved in writing that page; It sure reads like
they try to claim that they will not be responsible for spam which is
expected by using their website's links. They even specifically state
that they *will and do* transfer your personal information to at least
some of those sites *and* that they make no attempt of checking on what
those sites will do with the data which Loews gives them. It looks like
anyone should avoid following any links from the Leows' site to any third
party website based on that statement!
OK - you win this round: Loews does indeed appear to be an
affiliate spammer. (Just you didn't find the evidence - it was elsewhere.)
>
>So What? I'd assume every hardware store in the NATION had a link or
>mention of winterizewithscotts on their website, and on standees on
>their store floor next to the bags of fertilizer.
>
>> At this point, I no longer believe that the winterizewithscotts
>> case is a FP,
>
>Wait.. Let me get this straight.
>
>
>Scenario 1:)
>A hardware store hires a spammer to forge his stores domain name as the
>From: address of the spam advertising viagra.
>He's hoping this directs more consumers to his website by them
>copy-pasting the domain from the From: address of a spam into a web browser.
>When they get there, he hopes they'll find the promotion for the scott's
>sweepstakes.
>Based on that, he hopes they'll order the fertilizer from him, in order
>to enter the sweepstakes. Thereby making a profit.
Huh? (Lookup "strawman" in a dictionary, please.)
>
>And this is more likely than a regular store owner who has mention of a
>sweepstakes on his site that happened to get randomly Joe-Jobbed by a
>spammer.
Again, huh?
>
>Or is it merely the fact that the store owner mentions a sweepstakes on
>his website that makes him an affiliate spammer, without regard for any
>email ever being sent?
I guess you don't get email from Home Depot - just sign up and it
will come - including "specials" and links to suppliers web pages. If you
didn't willingly agree, then they would be an "affiliate" spammer; They
might be - I always write "NO EMAIL" on the forms.
Probably similar to the Leows policy above - Consumer beware.
>
>Secnario 2)
>Someone posts a URL to a sweepstakes on a web forum. He has no links
>through which anyone can buy the product, so no chance of profit by
>sale. His URL contains no IDs and is not linked. At best, a copy-paste
>of the URL might create a referrer back to the forum, not any site he
>operates. Based on that, scotts company is going to track the referrer
>back to the fourum, and understand what person posted the URL and pay
>them for it?
Just because no one gets paid, doesn't mean consent was granted.
And are you *sure* the "discount forum" doesn't get paid? The various
"coupon" sites all over the web do; Try "discount coupon" in Yahoo! or
Google - many of those sites have forums also.
>
>And this is more likely than just some excited average joe posting on
>the web because he found a way to register without buying any fertilizer?
Quite possible - you've seen blogs right? 15 minutes of fame for
many people is having their name on a web page.
>
>And based on those two scenarios, you've solidly concluded it's not a FP?
No, exactly as I said - based on the REBATE form, I've concluded
it was unlikely to be an FP.
>
>I'm sorry, this discussion is over and I will take no further part.
>You're 100% convinced that this is a grandiose affiliate marketing scheme.
>
One more time: Huh? I am convinced that a company (i.e. Scotts)
was slopply about disclosing their use of supplied personal data on the
rebate forms they issued for at least some products. I am also convinced
that there did exist other ways for a consumer to provide that same data
to Scotts without the opertunity of becoming aware of their stated "privacy
policy" (stated *elsewhere* and not referenced on all of the forms and web
pages which requested it).
>I'm sorry, Those two scenarios are WAY too far fetched for me. You may
>as well have said that Elvis is alive and helping them along with Jimmy
>Hoffa, the aliens, and that the CIA is covering the whole thing up. It
>is equally plausible to me.
No Elvis lives in Brazil, Jimmy Hoffa is in Canada and they don't
even like each other - and not the CIA, but the NSA :0)
>
>Perhaps you should go work for the tabloids. If "proof" like that is
>convincing to you they should be able to find you a great job in
>"investigative reporting".
>
Scenario 3:)
A hardware store posts a *direct* link to a rebate form (or had a
pad of them on or near a shelf); Customer prints (or takes a copy of) the
rebate form (with no opportunity to every see the Scotts' web page telling
him that any email he provides will be used for marketing); Customer buys
a Scotts' product at the store and mails in the printed form, Customer then
receives spam. QED
Please read the rebate form, then read the Scotts' privacy policy.
Seems very simple.
BTW. I see Scotts creates a cookie with my IP and timestamp and
about 40 other hex digits I can't clearly decode - What do you think they
are trying to track? (name SSDCID - host ssdc.scotts.com) - Oops, I see
now - the prefix of the cookie is identical to that created by the site
www.acohardware.com named "UserTrack" with the same IP and date code.
Gee - must just be a coincidence.
Other Scenarios :)
Also cut&paste to the same window - Don't you think that is the most
common case?
Just because a site has legitimate users and uses doesn't mean it
wasn't also spammed. Many people clearly visit both porn and pill sites
that are spammed entirely of their own volition.
Paul Shupak
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
