I believe this snippet sums it up pretty well:
"Now you have a bit more context about why Intel’s response was, well,
a non-response. They blamed others, correctly, for having the same
problem but their blanket statement avoided the obvious issue of the
others aren’t crippled by the effects of the patches like Intel. Intel
screwed up, badly, and are facing a 30% performance hit going forward
for it. AMD did right and are probably breaking out the champagne at
HQ about now."
On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 5:38 AM, Matthieu Brucher
<matthieu.bruc...@gmail.com <mailto:matthieu.bruc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
I think, on the contrary, that he did notice the AMD/ARM issue. I
suppose you haven't read the text (and I like the fact that there
are different opinions on this issue).
Matthieu
2018-01-05 8:23 GMT+01:00 Gilles Gouaillardet <gil...@rist.or.jp
<mailto:gil...@rist.or.jp>>:
John,
The technical assessment so to speak is linked in the article
and is available at
https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.jp/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.jp/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html>.
The long rant against Intel PR blinded you and you did not
notice AMD and ARM (and though not mentionned here, Power and
Sparc too) are vulnerable to some bugs.
Full disclosure, i have no affiliation with Intel, but i am
getting pissed with the hysteria around this issue.
Gilles
On 1/5/2018 3:54 PM, John Chludzinski wrote:
That article gives the best technical assessment I've
seen of Intel's architecture bug. I noted the discussion's
subject and thought I'd add some clarity. Nothing more.
For the TL;DR crowd: get an AMD chip in your computer.
On Thursday, January 4, 2018, r...@open-mpi.org
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org> <mailto:r...@open-mpi.org
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org>> <r...@open-mpi.org
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org> <mailto:r...@open-mpi.org
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org>>> wrote:
Yes, please - that was totally inappropriate for this
mailing list.
Ralph
On Jan 4, 2018, at 4:33 PM, Jeff Hammond
<jeff.scie...@gmail.com <mailto:jeff.scie...@gmail.com>
<mailto:jeff.scie...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeff.scie...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
Can we restrain ourselves to talk about Open-MPI
or at least
technical aspects of HPC communication on this
list and leave the
stock market tips for Hacker News and Twitter?
Thanks,
Jeff
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 3:53 PM, John
Chludzinski<john.chludzin...@gmail.com
<mailto:john.chludzin...@gmail.com>
<mailto:john.chludzin...@gmail.com
<mailto:john.chludzin...@gmail.com>>>wrote:
Fromhttps://semiaccurate.com/2018/01/04/kaiser-security-holes-will-devastate-intels-marketshare/
<http://semiaccurate.com/2018/01/04/kaiser-security-holes-will-devastate-intels-marketshare/>
<https://semiaccurate.com/2018/01/04/kaiser-security-holes-will-devastate-intels-marketshare/
<https://semiaccurate.com/2018/01/04/kaiser-security-holes-will-devastate-intels-marketshare/>>
Kaiser security holes will devastate Intel’s
marketshare
Analysis: This one tips the balance
toward AMD in a big way
Jan 4, 2018 by Charlie Demerjian
<https://semiaccurate.com/author/charlie/
<https://semiaccurate.com/author/charlie/>>
This latest decade-long critical security hole
in Intel CPUs
is going to cost the company significant
market share.
SemiAccurate thinks it is not only
consequential but will
shift the balance of power away from Intel
CPUs for at least
the next several years.
Today’s latest crop of gaping security flaws
have three sets
of holes across Intel, AMD, and ARM processors
along with a
slew of official statements and detailed
analyses. On top of
that the statements from vendors range from
detailed and
direct to intentionally misleading and slimy.
Lets take a
look at what the problems are, who they effect
and what the
outcome will be. Those outcomes range from
trivial patching
to destroying the market share of Intel
servers, and no we
are not joking.
(*Authors Note 1:* For the technical readers
we are
simplifying a lot, sorry we know this hurts.
The full
disclosure docs are linked, read them for the
details.)
(*Authors Note 2:* For the financial oriented
subscribers out
there, the parts relevant to you are at the
very end, the
section is titled *Rubber Meet Road*.)
*The Problem(s):*
As we said earlier there are three distinct
security flaws
that all fall somewhat under the same
umbrella. All are ‘new’
in the sense that the class of attacks hasn’t
been publicly
described before, and all are very obscure CPU
speculative
execution and timing related problems. The
extent the fixes
affect differing architectures also ranges
from minor to
near-crippling slowdowns. Worse yet is that
all three flaws
aren’t bugs or errors, they exploit correct
CPU behavior to
allow the systems to be hacked.
The three problems are cleverly labeled
Variant One, Variant
Two, and Variant Three. Google Project Zero
was the original
discoverer of them and has labeled the classes
as Bounds
Bypass Check, Branch Target Injection, and
Rogue Data Cache
Load respectively. You can read up on the
extensive and gory
details here
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html>>
if
you wish.
If you are the TLDR type the very simplified
summary is that
modern CPUs will speculatively execute
operations ahead of
the one they are currently running. Some
architectures will
allow these executions to start even when they
violate
privilege levels, but those instructions are
killed or rolled
back hopefully before they actually complete
running.
Another feature of modern CPUs is virtual
memory which can
allow memory from two or more processes to
occupy the same
physical page. This is a good thing because if
you have
memory from the kernel and a bit of user code
in the same
physical page but different virtual pages,
changing from
kernel to userspace execution doesn’t require
a page fault.
This saves massive amounts of time and
overhead giving modern
CPUs a huge speed boost. (For the really
technical out there,
I know you are cringing at this
simplification, sorry).
These two things together allow you to do some
interesting
things and along with timing attacks add new
weapons to your
hacking arsenal. If you have code executing on
one side of a
virtual memory page boundary, it can
speculatively execute
the next few instructions on the physical page
that cross the
virtual page boundary. This isn’t a big deal
unless the two
virtual pages are mapped to processes that are
from different
users or different privilege levels. Then you
have a problem.
(Again painfully simplified and liberties
taken with the
explanation, read the Google paper for the
full detail.)
This speculative execution allows you to get a
few short (low
latency) instructions in before the
speculation ends. Under
certain circumstances you can read memory from
different
threads or privilege levels, write those
things somewhere,
and figure out what addresses other bits of
code are using.
The latter bit has the nasty effect of
potentially blowing
through address space randomization defenses
which are a
keystone of modern security efforts. It is ugly.
*Who Gets Hit:*
So we have three attack vectors and three
affected companies,
Intel, AMD, and ARM. Each has a different set of
vulnerabilities to the different attacks due
to differences
in underlying architectures. AMD put out a
pretty clear
statement of what is affected, ARM put out by
far the best
and most comprehensive description, and Intel
obfuscated,
denied, blamed others, and downplayed the
problem. If this
was a contest for misleading with doublespeak and
misdirection, Intel won with a gold star, the
others weren’t
even in the game. Lets look at who said what
and why.
*ARM:*
ARM has a page up
<https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update
<https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update>> listing
vulnerable processor cores, descriptions of
the attacks, and
plenty of links to more information. They also
put up a very
comprehensive white paper that rivals Google’s
original
writeup, complete with code examples and a new
3a variant.
You can find it here
<https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update/download-the-whitepaper
<https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update/download-the-whitepaper>>.
Just for completeness we are putting up ARM’s
excellent table
of affected processors, enjoy.
ARM Kaiser core table
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2018/01/ARM_Kaiser_response_table.jpg
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2018/01/ARM_Kaiser_response_table.jpg>>
*Affected ARM cores*
*AMD:*
AMD gave us the following table which lays out
their position
pretty clearly. The short version is that
architecturally
speaking they are vulnerable to 1 and 2 but
three is not
possible due to microarchitecture. More on
this in a bit, it
is very important. AMD also went on to
describe some of the
issues and mitigations to SemiAccurate, but
again, more in a bit.
AMD Kaiser response Matrix
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2018/01/AMD_Kaiser_response.jpg
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2018/01/AMD_Kaiser_response.jpg>>
*AMD’s response matrix*
*Intel:*
Intel is continuing to be the running joke of
the industry as
far as messaging is concerned. Their statement
is a pretty
awe-inspiring example of saying nothing while
desperately
trying to minimize the problem. You can find
it here
<https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intel-responds-to-security-research-findings/
<https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intel-responds-to-security-research-findings/>>
but
it contains zero useful information.
SemiAccurate is getting
tired of saying this but Intel should be
ashamed of how their
messaging is done, not saying anything would
do less damage
than their current course of action.
You will notice the line in the second
paragraph, “/Recent
reports that these exploits are caused by a
“bug” or a “flaw”
and are unique to Intel products are
incorrect.”/ This is
technically true and pretty damning. They are
directly saying
that the problem is not a bug but is due to
*misuse of
correct processor behavior*. This a a critical
problem
because it can’t be ‘patched’ or ‘updated’
like a bug or flaw
without breaking the CPU. In short you can’t
fix it, and this
will be important later. Intel mentions this
but others don’t
for a good reason, again later.
Then Intel goes on to say, /“Intel is
committed to the
industry best practice of responsible
disclosure of potential
security issues, which is why Intel and other
vendors had
planned to disclose this issue next week when
more software
and firmware updates will be available.
However, Intel is
making this statement today because of the
current inaccurate
media reports./” This is simply not true, or
at least the
part about industry best practices of
responsible disclosure.
Intel sat on the last critical security flaw
affecting 10+
years of CPUs which SemiAccurate exclusively
disclosed
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/2017/05/01/remote-security-exploit-2008-intel-platforms/
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/2017/05/01/remote-security-exploit-2008-intel-platforms/>>
for
6+ weeks after a patch was released. Why? PR
reasons.
SemiAccurate feels that Intel holding back
knowledge of what
we believe were flaws being actively exploited
in the field
even though there were simple mitigation steps
available is
not responsible. Or best practices. Or
ethical. Or anything
even intoning goodness. It is simply
unethical, but only that
good if you are feeling kind. Intel does not
do the right
thing for security breaches and has not even
attempted to do
so in the 15+ years this reporter has been
tracking them on
the topic. They are by far the worst major
company in this
regard, and getting worse.
*Mitigation:*
As is described by Google, ARM, and AMD, but
not Intel, there
are workarounds for the three new
vulnerabilities. Since
Google first discovered these holes in June,
2017, there have
been patches pushed up to various Linux kernel
and related
repositories. The first one SemiAccurate can
find was dated
October 2017 and the industry coordinated
announcement was
set for Monday, January 9, 2018 so you can be
pretty sure
that the patches are in place and ready to be
pushed out if
not on your systems already. Microsoft and
Apple are said to
be at a similar state of readiness too. In
short by the time
you read this, it will likely be fixed.
That said the fixes do have consequences, and
all are heavily
workload dependent. For variants 1 and 2 the
performance hit
is pretty minor with reports of ~1%
performance hits under
certain circumstances but for the most part
you won’t notice
anything if you patch, and you should patch.
Basically 1 and
2 are irrelevant from any performance
perspective as long as
your system is patched.
The big problem is with variant 3 which ARM
claims has a
similar effect on devices like phones or
tablets, IE low
single digit performance hits if that. Given
the way ARM CPUs
are used in the majority of devices, they
don’t tend to have
the multi-user, multi-tenant, heavily
virtualized workloads
that servers do. For the few ARM cores that
are affected,
their users will see a minor, likely
unnoticeable performance
hit when patched.
User x86 systems will likely be closer to the
ARM model for
performance hits. Why? Because while they can
run heavily
virtualized, multi-user, multi-tenant
workloads, most desktop
users don’t. Even if they do, it is pretty
rare that these
users are CPU bound for performance, memory
and storage
bandwidth will hammer performance on these
workloads long
before the CPU becomes a bottleneck. Why do we
bring this up?
Because in those heavily virtualized,
multi-tenant,
multi-user workloads that most servers run in
the modern
world, the patches for 3 are painful. How painful?
SemiAccurate’s research has found reports of
between 5-50%
slowdowns, again workload and software
dependent, with the
average being around 30%. This stands to
reason because the
fixes we have found essentially force a
demapping of kernel
code on a context switch.
*The Pain:*
This may sound like techno-babble but it
isn’t, and it
happens a many thousands of times a second on
modern machines
if not more. Because as Intel pointed out, the
CPU is
operating correctly and the exploit uses
correct behavior, it
can’t be patched or ‘fixed’ without breaking
the CPU itself.
Instead what you have to do is make sure the
circumstances
that can be exploited don’t happen. Consider
this a software
workaround or avoidance mechanism, not a patch
or bug fix,
the underlying problem is still there and
exploitable, there
is just nothing to exploit.
Since the root cause of 3 is a mechanism that
results in a
huge performance benefit by not having to take
a few thousand
or perhaps millions page faults a second, at
the very least
you now have to take the hit of those page
faults. Worse yet
the fix, from what SemiAccurate has gathered
so far, has to
unload the kernel pages from virtual memory
maps on a context
switch. So with the patch not only do you have
to take the
hit you previously avoided, but you have to
also do a lot of
work copying/scrubbing virtual memory every
time you do. This
explains the hit of ~1/3rd of your total CPU
performance
quite nicely.
Going back to user x86 machines and ARM
devices, they aren’t
doing nearly as many context switches as the
servers are but
likely have to do the same work when doing a
switch. In short
if you do a theoretical 5% of the switches,
you take 5% of
that 30% hit. It isn’t this simple but you get
the idea, it
is unlikely to cripple a consumer desktop PC
or phone but
will probably cripple a server. Workload
dependent, we meant it.
*The Knife Goes In:*
So x86 servers are in deep trouble, what was
doable on two
racks of machines now needs three if you apply
the patch for
3. If not, well customers have lawyers, will
you risk it?
Worse yet would you buy cloud services from
someone who
didn’t apply the patch? Think about this for
the economics of
the megadatacenters, if you are buying 100K+
servers a month,
you now need closer to 150K, not a trivial
added outlay for
even the big guys.
But there is one big caveat and it comes down
to the part we
said we would get to later. Later is now. Go
back and look at
that AMD chart near the top of the article,
specifically
their vulnerability for Variant 3 attacks.
Note the bit
about, “/Zero AMD vulnerability or risk
because of AMD
architecture differences./” See an issue here?
What AMD didn’t spell out in detail is a minor
difference in
microarchitecture between Intel and AMD CPUs.
When a CPU
speculatively executes and crosses a privilege
level
boundary, any idiot would probably say that
the CPU should
see this crossing and not execute the
following instructions
that are out of it’s privilege level. This
isn’t rocket
science, just basic common sense.
AMD’s microarchitecture sees this privilege
level change and
throws the microarchitectural equivalent of a
hissy fit and
doesn’t execute the code. Common sense wins
out. Intel’s
implementation does execute the following code
across
privilege levels which sounds on the surface
like a bit of a
face-palm implementation but it really isn’t.
What saves Intel is that the speculative
execution goes on
but, to the best of our knowledge, is unwound
when the
privilege level changes a few instructions
later. Since Intel
CPUs in the wild don’t crash or violate
privilege levels, it
looks like that mechanism works properly in
practice. What
these new exploits do is slip a few very short
instructions
in that can read data from the other user or
privilege level
before the context change happens. If crafted
correctly the
instructions are unwound but the data can be
stashed in a
place that is persistent.
Intel probably get a slight performance gain
from doing this
‘sloppy’ method but AMD seems to have have
done the right
thing for the right reasons. That extra bounds
check probably
take a bit of time but in retrospect, doing
the right thing
was worth it. Since both are fundamental
‘correct’ behaviors
for their respective microarchitectures, there
is no possible
fix, just code that avoids scenarios where it
can be abused.
For Intel this avoidance comes with a 30%
performance hit on
server type workloads, less on desktop
workloads. For AMD the
problem was avoided by design and the
performance hit is
zero. Doing the right thing for the right
reasons even if it
is marginally slower seems to have paid off in
this
circumstance. Mother was right, AMD listened,
Intel didn’t.
*Weasel Words:*
Now you have a bit more context about why
Intel’s response
was, well, a non-response. They blamed others,
correctly, for
having the same problem but their blanket
statement avoided
the obvious issue of the others aren’t
crippled by the
effects of the patches like Intel. Intel
screwed up, badly,
and are facing a 30% performance hit going
forward for it.
AMD did right and are probably breaking out
the champagne at
HQ about now.
Intel also tried to deflect lawyers by saying
they follow
industry best practices. They don’t and the
AMT hole was a
shining example of them putting PR above
customer security.
Similarly their sitting on the fix for the TXT
flaw for
*THREE*YEARS*
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/2016/01/20/intel-puts-out-secure-cpus-based-on-insecurity/
<https://www.semiaccurate.com/2016/01/20/intel-puts-out-secure-cpus-based-on-insecurity/>>
because
they didn’t want to admit to architectural
security blunders
and reveal publicly embarrassing policies
until forced to
disclose by a governmental agency being
exploited by a
foreign power is another example that shines a
harsh light on
their ‘best practices’ line. There are many
more like this.
Intel isn’t to be trusted for security
practices or
disclosures because PR takes precedence over
customer security.
*Rubber Meet Road:*
Unfortunately security doesn’t sell and rarely
affects
marketshare. This time however is different
and will hit
Intel were it hurts, in the wallet.
SemiAccurate thinks this
exploit is going to devastate Intel’s
marketshare. Why? Read
on subscribers.
/Note: The following is analysis for
professional level
subscribers only./
/Disclosures: Charlie Demerjian and Stone Arch
Networking
Services, Inc. have no consulting
relationships, investment
relationships, or hold any investment
positions with any of
the companies mentioned in this report./
/
/
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:21 PM,
Reuti<re...@staff.uni-marburg.de
<mailto:re...@staff.uni-marburg.de>
<mailto:re...@staff.uni-marburg.de
<mailto:re...@staff.uni-marburg.de>>>wrote:
Am 04.01.2018 um 23:45
schrieb...@open-mpi.org <mailto:schrieb...@open-mpi.org>
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org>>:
> As more information continues to
surface, it is clear
that this original article that spurred
this thread was
somewhat incomplete - probably released a
little too
quickly, before full information was
available. There is
still some confusion out there, but the
gist from surfing
the various articles (and trimming away
the hysteria)
appears to be:
>
> * there are two security issues, both
stemming from the
same root cause. The “problem” has
actually been around
for nearly 20 years, but faster processors
are making it
much more visible.
>
> * one problem (Meltdown) specifically
impacts at least
Intel, ARM, and AMD processors. This
problem is the one
that the kernel patches address as it can
be corrected
via software, albeit with some impact that
varies based
on application. Those apps that perform
lots of kernel
services will see larger impacts than
those that don’t
use the kernel much.
>
> * the other problem (Spectre) appears to
impact _all_
processors (including, by some reports,
SPARC and Power).
This problem lacks a software solution
>
> * the “problem” is only a problem if you
are running on
shared nodes - i.e., if multiple users
share a common OS
instance as it allows a user to
potentially access the
kernel information of the other user. So HPC
installations that allocate complete nodes
to a single
user might want to take a closer look
before installing
the patches. Ditto for your desktop and
laptop - unless
someone can gain access to the machine, it
isn’t really a
“problem”.
Weren't there some PowerPC with strict
in-order-execution
which could circumvent this? I find a hint
about an
"EIEIO" command only. Sure,
in-order-execution might slow
down the system too.
-- Reuti
>
> * containers and VMs don’t fully resolve
the problem -
the only solution other than the patches
is to limit
allocations to single users on a node
>
> HTH
> Ralph
>
>
>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 10:47
AM,r...@open-mpi.org <mailto:r...@open-mpi.org>
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org
<mailto:r...@open-mpi.org>>wrote:
>>
>> Well, it appears from that article that
the primary
impact comes from accessing kernel
services. With an
OS-bypass network, that shouldn’t happen
all that
frequently, and so I would naively expect
the impact to
be at the lower end of the reported scale
for those
environments. TCP-based systems, though,
might be on the
other end.
>>
>> Probably something we’ll only really
know after testing.
>>
>>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Noam
Bernstein
<noam.bernst...@nrl.navy.mil
<mailto:noam.bernst...@nrl.navy.mil>
<mailto:noam.bernst...@nrl.navy.mil
<mailto:noam.bernst...@nrl.navy.mil>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, have any of the
OpenMPI developers
tested (or care to speculate) how strongly
affected
OpenMPI based codes (just the MPI part,
obviously) will
be by the proposed Intel CPU
memory-mapping-related
kernel patches that are all the rage?
>>>
>>>
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/whats-behind-the-intel-design-flaw-forcing-numerous-patches/
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/whats-behind-the-intel-design-flaw-forcing-numerous-patches/>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/whats-behind-the-intel-design-flaw-forcing-numerous-patches/
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/whats-behind-the-intel-design-flaw-forcing-numerous-patches/>>
>>>
>>> Noam
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> users mailing list
>>>users@lists.open-mpi.org
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<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org
<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org>>
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<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users>>
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>>users@lists.open-mpi.org
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<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org
<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org>>
>>https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
> users mailing list
>users@lists.open-mpi.org
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<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org>>
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<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users
<https://lists.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo/users>>
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users mailing list
users@lists.open-mpi.org
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<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org>>
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users@lists.open-mpi.org
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<mailto:users@lists.open-mpi.org>>
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Jeff Hammond
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http://jeffhammond.github.io/
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Quantitative analyst, Ph.D.
Blog: http://blog.audio-tk.com/
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