The guidelines stipulate no "excessive or unnecessary" profanity. Perhaps you also decide what qualifies as necessary or non-excessive?
To summarise my view of this entire discussion: policing users is just... mind boggling. Well worthy of profanity. On 12 September 2016 at 14:16, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote: > On 12/09/2016 12:51, Benedict Elliott Smith wrote: > > Please tone down your language. There is no need for profanity. > > Now is probably a good time to remind everyone of the Apache Code of > Conduct: > http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html > > > > (a link to 3rd party docs in response to a question when an > > equivalent link to project hosted docs was available) > > > > > > No, it wasn't. Or at least the link you sent was not remotely the same > > as the link in the email you responded to, which was about how to > > understand your partition sizes - not the configuration parameter. > > Possibly you responded to the wrong email. > > I did respond to the wrong e-mail. I apologise for any confusion caused. > I intended to respond to this message: > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6a68da3467b1fe8fe96c1bede135d3 > 29419b78bf3cc3912e727304db@%3Cuser.cassandra.apache.org%3E > > rather than this one: > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/39a47ddf3cdecf6a196967ba679c30 > d65279a2afc05a2588e8c69bac@%3Cuser.cassandra.apache.org%3E > > I must have clicked on the wrong message in the thread as I moved > between windows. > > > Any member of a project community (contributor, committer or PMC > > member) > > > > > > Right. But policing /users/ (which Mark most certainly is) is just > > douchebaggery. Users should feel free to participate with the resources > > /they know best /without fear of reprisal. All of your statement > > suggests this shit belongs on the dev list. > > Users are as much part of the community as anyone else. > > > Or are we really suggesting that anyone discussing things on the user > > list must be 100% conversant with the "official" docs before they can > > make any kind of posting to the list? Or otherwise they can expect to > > be attacked by other community members? > > I am not saying that at all. I am saying that, unless there is a good > reason, links to documentation - particularly reference documentation - > should be to the official Apache hosts docs in preference to links to a > third party. > > > Talk about chilling. I do not see this promoting engagement - who wants > > to help other users out if this is what they can expect in return? A > > public shaming? > > My response was not to Mark, but to the community as a whole. It was not > intended as either a reprimand or a shaming. If Mark feels differently, > then I apologise. My intention was to make a simple request to the > community as a whole to reference the official documentation in > preference to 3rd party docs unless there was a good reason. > > > Linking to third party docs, blogs, etc is fairly common but they > > tend to be linked by the OP in the form of "I've followed the > > instructions I found here and it doesn't work". > > > > > > Bullshit. Try a simple google > > search: site:https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/ > > thelastpickle.com/blog <http://thelastpickle.com/blog> > > > > There are 500 results. For just one external resource. I don't recall > > a single one of these resulting in a reprimand. Try the first three > > links from the search - they do not fit /any/ of your characterisations > > of "normal" - but they do fit mine. > > None of which, according to Google, have been made since I joined the > list in August. The past is the past and I don't see how a review of any > of those posts helps the project. > > There are also ~1500 references to docs.datastax.com. I don't think > reviewing those posts would help either. > > I'll note that the search didn't turn up this post (probably because of > the combined delay in mail-archives.a.o updating and Google indexing the > site): > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7f60b641c40e5e7ba9c7c5c90eee47 > a94e5ce8690450c7617adc4a41@%3Cuser.cassandra.apache.org%3E > > That is a good example of the "more involved" question I referred to > previously. Hopefully, some of that information will find its way into > the architecture section of the official docs. > > > Perhaps you can link the history of projects attacking users for their > > email content? > > I did say that linking to 3rd party reference docs rather than the > official reference docs as part of an answer to a question was unusual. > In the Apache community I know best, Tomcat, I do recall it happening a > few times but less than once a year. I don't recall any of the specifics > so finding a reference in the ~150k user@ list messages over the last 10 > years is a tall order. I did try, but finding a reference is going to > take more time than I have. > > Mark > > > > On 12 September 2016 at 12:10, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org > > <mailto:ma...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > On 09/09/2016 21:11, Benedict Elliott Smith wrote: > > > Come on. This kind of inconsistent 'policing' is not helpful. > > > > How is it inconsistent? Since I subscribed to the mailing list on 22 > > August, this is the first instance I have seen of anyone providing a > > link to third party docs rather than the equivalent project hosted > docs > > in response to a user question. If I missed any, please point them > out. > > The lists are pretty busy and that, combined with my minimal > technical > > knowledge of Cassandra, means it is perfectly possible I missed some. > > > > I've done a quick double check of the user@ archives and while I do > see > > a number of messages referencing 3rd party docs, those references > were > > made by the OP rather than someone from the community providing an > > answer. > > > > > By all means, push the /*committers*/ to improve the project docs > > as is > > > happening, and to promote the internal resources over external > ones. > > > > > > But Mark has absolutely no formal connection with the project, and > his > > > contributions have only been to file a couple of JIRA (all of > which have > > > so far been ignored by those of his colleagues who /are/ active > > > community members, I'll note!). Shaming him for not linking docs > that > > > describe something /other/ than what he was even talking about is > > > crossing the line IMO. > > > > Any member of a project community (contributor, committer or PMC > member) > > directing users to 3rd party docs in preference to project docs > without > > a good reason is missing an opportunity to strengthen that project > > community. > > > > > Linking to third-party resources is commonplace, the only > difference I > > > can see here is that these have been called "docs" by the authors, > > > instead of a blog post, and Mark has a DataStax email address. > > > > Linking to third party reference docs for an Apache project in > response > > to a configuration question about that Apache project on one of the > > project's mailing lists is pretty unusual. > > > > Linking to third party docs, blogs, etc is fairly common but they > tend > > to be linked by the OP in the form of "I've followed the > instructions I > > found here and it doesn't work". The responses to such questions > > typically include links to the relevant parts of the Apache hosted > docs. > > > > If the question is more involved then I have seen links to blogs, > > presentations, YouTube etc provided as an answer. If this happens > > multiple times for the same topic then it is usually added to an FAQ, > > wiki or similar along with an e-mail to the author to see if they'd > be > > willing to contribute something to the docs. > > > > > Would you have reacted this way if Aaron Morton linked a blog post > by > > > thelastpickle? Or a random user posted their own resources? > Obviously not. > > > > Wrong. My reaction was based on the content of the message (a link to > > 3rd party docs in response to a question when an equivalent link to > > project hosted docs was available) not on who sent it or their > employer. > > > > > I was initially all for the ASF endeavour to counteract DataStax' > > > outsized influence on the project, and was hopeful you might > achieve > > > some positive change. Perhaps you may well still do. But it > seems to > > > me that the ASF behaviour is beginning to cross from constructive > > > criticism of the project participants to prejudicially hostile > behaviour > > > against certain community members - and that is unlikely to result > in a > > > better project. > > > > > > You should be treating everyone consistently, in a manner that > promotes > > > project health. > > > > It is not healthy if community members are directing users to 3rd > party > > documentation in preference to the project's own documentation. If > it is > > happening because the project's documentation is non-existent / > wrong / > > poorly written / etc. then that is understandable (and would be an > issue > > the project needed to address) but that was not the case in this > > instance. > > > > There are many aspects to community health. In the grand scheme of > > things the single e-mail that started this particular discussion is > in > > the noise. However, a consistent pattern of such e-mails would be > much > > more troubling. My intent was to ensure that such a pattern did not > > form. > > > > Whether people agree with my response or not, the community is > hopefully > > more aware of the issue than it was previously. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > On Friday, 9 September 2016, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org > <mailto:ma...@apache.org> > > > <mailto:ma...@apache.org <mailto:ma...@apache.org>>> wrote: > > > > > > On 09/09/2016 16:46, Mark Curtis wrote: > > > > If your partition sizes are over 100MB iirc then you'll > > normally see > > > > warnings in your system.log, this will outline the partition > > key, at > > > > least in Cassandra 2.0 and 2.1 as I recall. > > > > > > > > Your best friend here is nodetool cfstats which shows you the > > > > min/mean/max partition sizes for your table. It's quite > > often used to > > > > pinpoint large partitons on nodes in a cluster. > > > > > > > > More info > > > > here: > > > > > https://docs.datastax.com/en/cassandra/2.1/cassandra/tools/ > toolsCFstats.html > > <https://docs.datastax.com/en/cassandra/2.1/cassandra/tools/ > toolsCFstats.html> > > > > > <https://docs.datastax.com/en/cassandra/2.1/cassandra/tools/ > toolsCFstats.html > > <https://docs.datastax.com/en/cassandra/2.1/cassandra/tools/ > toolsCFstats.html>> > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > It is *Apache* Cassandra. If you are going to point to docs, > > please > > > point to the official Apache docs unless there is a very good > > reason > > > not to. > > > > > > In this case: > > > > > > > > http://cassandra.apache.org/doc/latest/configuration/ > cassandra_config_file.html#compaction_large_partition_warning_threshold_mb > > <http://cassandra.apache.org/doc/latest/configuration/ > cassandra_config_file.html#compaction_large_partition_warning_threshold_mb > > > > > > > <http://cassandra.apache.org/doc/latest/configuration/ > cassandra_config_file.html#compaction_large_partition_warning_threshold_mb > > <http://cassandra.apache.org/doc/latest/configuration/ > cassandra_config_file.html#compaction_large_partition_warning_threshold_mb > >> > > > > > > looks to the place. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9 September 2016 at 02:53, Anshu Vajpayee > > <anshu.vajpa...@gmail.com <mailto:anshu.vajpa...@gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:anshu.vajpa...@gmail.com > > <mailto:anshu.vajpa...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there any way to get partition size for a partition > > key ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
