On Aug 7, 2012, at 7:34 PM, Matt Richardson <m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk> 
wrote:

> I do like the idea of moving the window controls as you suggest, but the 
> suggestion here was to move the indicators so that they fall outside of the 
> window rectangle.
> I also agree that if users had a reasonable idea about system semantics then 
> designing accordingly would mean design would match user expectation.
> My experience is that most users don't think about the system semantics. As 
> an example, many people think of the office suite as a reason to choose an 
> operating system, despite the fact that the office suite is not technically 
> part of the operating system.
> 
> Take that perspective on whether indicators should be moved outside the 
> window rectangle and it's my opinion that most users would be more bothered 
> by increasing the mouse travel distance than by semantically correct 
> placement.
> 
> Matt
> 
> p.s. My use of the word 'surely' was simply a figure of speech. In future I 
> will try to make it clear that I am expressing only my own opinion.
> 
> On 08/08/12 00:43, Benjamin Bach wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2012, at 2:45 AM, Matt Richardson 
>> <m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> > I often hear suggestions like this; about where something should be
>> > placed or how it should behave because it belongs to this or that
>> > technical part of the system, but surely something should be placed
>> > where it is most logical to place it in terms of user interaction, not
>> > system semantics.
>> 
>> Not "surely". Just "maybe". There are not definitive answers.
>> 
>> System semantics are important as well, because having a correct 
>> understanding will guide the user's intuition.... blah blah blah.
>> 
>> Anyways, here's an example of how to alter the top bar such that the title 
>> of a window + its buttons will be correctly attached to the so-called 
>> rectangle of the window, adhearing to those spacial ("gestalt") laws of UI 
>> design -- without taking up more space:
>> 
>> http://ge.tt/9qRlGgL/v/0?c
>> 
>> - Ben
>> 
>> 
> 
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I like how indicators are now.

---Ryan
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