On 29/04/12 22:54, alan c wrote:
On 29/04/12 21:04, Alan Bell wrote:
it says "do you want to upgrade?" and you can say yes or no to it.
Clearly "yes" is the preferred option, but why shouldn't we encourage
people to upgrade to new cool stuff that will make their experience
better (which is the aim of it, sometimes that doesn't work out so
well)?
Why? because some regular users like my 80+ year old friend (sadly now
no longer with us) easily confuse an up'date' with an up'grade'.
Whereas updates are usually fairly safe, upgrades are not.
that is the bit that needs fixing, an upgrade should be as safe as an
update. I did have a problem with an upgrade to 12.04 around the time of
alpha1 but I think that bug got fixed, I have not seen it on any other
hardware.
Upgrade and update sound similar and seem similar. They appear even in
the same window in the same situation.
they do sound a bit similar, but it isn't the same window at all, I
don't see how it could be more different without going down the Windows
route of not offering online upgrades and making you get a CD (if you
are on an LTS we don't offer the upgrade until the next LTS is out)
http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/upgradepics/offer.png
http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/upgradepics/confirm.png
I was going to do more screenshots but my son got up early and found his
laptop and pressed forward or next or confirm until it finished because
he wanted to play games on CBBC.
Some users are ordinary non technical people. Update or upgrade is all
the same to them. One can consider that such ordinary human beings
are, or are not, capable of using the first user account to have
access to the admin level. My 92 year old relative, who only does
online shopping and is closely administered by tech family members if
changes are needed has a restricted account, but it is not appropriate
for an independent active 84 year old who goes to windows club every
week and uses Windows (was XP) routinely, and can and does expect to
install stuff from say the ubuntu software centre when he needs to in
his dual boot laptop.
There are strong moves to make Ubuntu good for a vast user base, but
many existing users are diy users like my 80+ friend, and in terms of
a discussion list like this one, they are novices and do not know
what, say, a partition is, like most Windows users don't.
It is such users that will get tripped up by Upgrade vs Update. This
is especially because the enthusiasm of our community and devs to
encourage upgrades is aimed at the traditional enthusiast linux based
os user, not the less competent joe or jane. Version upgrades are
notified by default and the reason a health warning would be
appropriate is because the least technical user is *likely* to fall
for it, like my friend.
well it is nice to get people upgraded because the new stuff is better.
I wouldn't want to get into a situation where we leave people on old
versions like people who bought a computer with Windows ME or Vista.
Or will we move to a discussion about the wrong sort of leaves on the
track or the wrong sort of users for Ubuntu, I trust not. It is the
sort of thing which will hopefully get addressed before too long, now
that unity is finding its feet. But it is an important type of issue
and it is something which (Windows etc) are well versed at, although
they have a knack of being condescending, and somehow untrustworthy.
no, Ubuntu should be for all users, as should upgrades.
This danger of 'relatively little knowledge' only exists in some
areas, not all. Many aspects of Ubuntu really are very good for
novices, I have many examples.
However because the main user base currently has to self install, the
less-technical end of this group can get trouble from information
intended mostly for more experienced users.
Not an upgrade situation: but a novice danger example was ubuntu 10.10
cd where one of the options for install caused loss of all the other
partitions on the disc. This problem was a severe problem, but
fortunately relatively few people chose the problem option. Of course,
I did (!) and lost multiple OS's on the test machine, but then I had
images. The problem remained unchanged throughout the life of 10.10.
Even Mint had the same bug, they did not seem to think it important!
My point here is that although such problems can be coped with by
techy enthusiasts they are much more serious for novice but slightly
adventurous Windows users, who have may have been encouraged by friends.
that would be a release critical bug, and yes I know about that one and
it is a heap easier to fix that before the CD images are created. That
is why we want people to test the upgrades before release, if that one
was found by someone before release it would have delayed the launch.
The sort of trouble that some users can get themselves into - a type
of user that we deliberately are aiming to increase in numbers -
continues to need a type of design vigilance which is a bit unusual in
the GNU/Linux world.
it needs more testing on more diverse hardware and from more diverse
situations prior to the CDs being pressed. Upgrades work perfectly on
lots of common hardware if you install 10.04 or 11.10 and then upgrade
without messing about with it. The problem is that people do mess about
with it (and quite rightly so). The upgrade scenario isn't always as one
would find in a lab.
--
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