Well I am not quite that pessimistic Bob, I am just saying if no oems are doing a new Ubuntu phone any time soon, you would need a relatively current reference device that is stable. Just to tide every one over till that time does come again. Say an N5 or N6. I congratulate you on getting your hands on an MX5. I was just a week too late on that one. Completely surprised at such a limited run. I would take it of your hands if you' re ditching it :)
It wasn’t my intention to bash the project to death at all. I do actually believe in the possibility of breaking into the status quo. If the proposition is good enough. And I still believe UT can be that. I recently did a live head-to-head on comparison with a hp windows continuum phone. And Ubuntu won on some major points hands down. Convergence is pretty awsum already and the design is as good as any phone I have owned. But i think Canonical can't afford to lose the base of users it has now. So they need a reliable device coming from somewhere. On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 3:07 AM, Bob Summerwill <b...@summerwill.net> wrote: > Great summary, Mathijs, > > I have been using first a Meizu MX4 and then a Meizu MX5 Pro successfully > here in Vancouver, Canada as my daily driver. > > But in the absence of real devices, there is little point in the project > continuing. It would just be a drain of limited funding for Canonical, > who have plenty of other important projects which need their focus. > > It is indeed a bitter pill to swallow, but unlike other open source > projects which can continue indefinitely as long as there are people with > itches to scratch, for Ubuntu Touch and other mobile OSes there is a real > co-dependency between hardware and specific software. You aren't making > software which can run on any x86 chip, as is the case for much of the > desktop world. > > Without supported hardware, it is pointless. Well, you could support the > emulators indefinitely, but that isn't producing any real value in itself. > > The same situation has already led to the demise of MeeGo, Firefox OS and > a trial-by-fire for Sailfish OS. And the zombie state of Windows Phone, > for that matter. Blackberry OS is on death's door as well. You need to > achieve critical mass, or you die. > > Withdrawing to just tablets is another option, because it removes the > whole wireless modem stack and carriers from the picture. > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Mathijs Veen <mathijsv...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi >> >> (Jo-Erlend, I think you are missing the point: There aren't any phones >> for new user to get. But worse: there are no phones for active >> users/developers to replace theirs if broken. There haven’t been for quite >> some time. That's bad because it is really hampering community involvement, >> let alone growing it). >> >> If I may boil the discussion down: >> >> The last Ubuntu phone that went to market (in very limited numbers and >> for a very short time) was in back in April. Today, virtually no one in >> this thread is expecting another official Ubuntu device any time soon. >> No one knows this for sure but quite a bitter pill if true. Question is: >> what do we do now? >> >> The thread provides a few options: >> >> 1) A Canonical phone. >> I would say the least likely, if not a daydream. Most of the reasons for >> that have been listed above. Canonical just isn't a hardware company. >> >> 2) Return to the Nexus line again as reference devices. >> This could work to keep the project -and especially community >> involvement- alive in the short term. But Canonical would have to pick some >> of the current Nexus models to enable and maintain again. Without that -ie >> having to muddle on with the N4- will soon have most ppl jump ship. As per >> a lot of previous comments and also my own experience: the N4 is just a >> little too underpowered for convergence over the wire and will never >> support wireless convergence anyway. The N4 is the only Nexus reference >> device left and it is hopelessly outdated. Also they are indeed >> ridiculously prone to breakage. >> >> 3) A community port >> I have been following the ubports project basically since it started and >> especially Marius has been doing a massive job. However: the number of >> different devices has, imho, been spread out too wide and funding has been >> far too thin. >> The only way I believe this could possibly work is this: Assuming we get >> indication that 1 and 2 are not going to happen, we have to organise some >> kind of community vote where we decide on one, or at most two, devices that >> are going to be ported for ut for the coming 1.5-2 years. We focus and >> rally for funding and community time and knowlegde on that phone and stick >> with it. We get people to see that spreading all that porting effort over >> all those devices (see https://devices.ubports.com/#/) isnt going to get >> us a stable UT phone for the short and mid term. Let us call it a community >> reference device. >> And I wont mind adding that I agree with some in this thread that the >> Fairphone2 should be a strong candidate for this. But that is for a >> separate discussion. >> >> Some final personal thoughts. >> I have tried to be as involved as my time and knowledge allowed me since >> very early on in the project. I first flashed a Galaxy Nexus (remember >> Maguro guys?) in October 2013. I have been using, discussing, promoting, >> testing, bug reporting and even doing a limited bit of programming for UT >> ever since. Most of you all have similar stories. And I still believe in >> the project. Actually, today more then ever. >> >> But this is the first time I am thoroughly worried for the future of the >> Ubuntu converged desktop/phone/tablet. >> >> Sure, Ubuntu core and Unity8 will continue but will obviously will take >> very different routes than if there were well maintained real-world devices >> around that developers and early adopters could use. For one thing: who's >> gonna build apps for a system that doesn't have any actual phones? >> >> One last reason I am worried: Because during this, and some other >> mail-threads and other channel discussions lately, there has been almost >> dead silence from the Ubuntu Community Management on this. >> >> I know they are in a difficult position in this because it is probably >> impossible for them to come out and say: yeah guys, regrettably there >> aren't going to be any new devices on the market any time soon. >> Nevertheless, If that is the case one would think that working with this >> community to bridge some bad times with either a new official reference >> device or a focused, mutual effort from Canonical and community developers >> on a port could be the best course to take to keep this thing alive. >> >> So (still operating on the sad assumption that no new device will appear >> on the market any time soon) : If none of the above scenarios get any >> traction, I will -with pain in my heart- be forced to say goodbye to Ubuntu >> touch as the phone I have been using for the past 3 years. Just because >> there isn't any. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Mathijs >> >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad < >> joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com> wrote: >> >>> Why are you even asking if Meizu of Bq has lost interest? Do you know >>> something I don't? The point was to produce a small number of phones for >>> people who really want it and knows why. Developers and enthusiasts. This >>> was announced as the strategy from the very beginning, long before there >>> were any phones to be bought. Ubuntu for phones hasn't been announced as >>> ready for mainstream and it isn't. Now we have quite a few people using >>> Ubuntu on phones and providing feedback and software, building a community. >>> That takes time. Hopefully, more developers and Ubuntu enthusiasts want the >>> phone when they see feedback from existing users. Then it might be time for >>> another small batch of phones, expanding the community and increasing the >>> guerilla marketing. >>> >>> One of the worst things that could happen, was if curious people got the >>> impression that it was ready for mainstream and got one, only to be >>> disappointed and then running around on social media talking about how bad >>> it is. People who really understand the project, however, knows it's a WIP >>> and they're not so put off by its limitations. These are good ambassadors. >>> >>> There's lots of stuff that must be done. For instance, it would make >>> sense to switch Ubuntu for phones to Snap rather than Click. And of course, >>> the big USP for Ubuntu for phones, is it's ability to function as a desktop >>> as well. But that doesn't really work yet. For now, Ubuntu for phones is >>> better off being a geeky thing. >>> >>> What's the hurry? >>> >>> On 8 September 2016 at 05:58, mark <j.m.hol...@me.com> wrote: >>> >>>> If Meizu and bq have lost interest in the platform, and are really not >>>> planning to build new phones then, perhaps enthusiasts - of which there >>>> seem to be no shortage - should go down the Fairphone route, and >>>> crowd-source a small run of devices, designed for Ubuntu and produced by an >>>> OEM. I don't know what the run of the Meizu or bq phones amounted to, but >>>> surely say ~20,000 high-spec Ubuntu phones could be sold? >>>> >>>> >>>> m >>>> >>>> On 07/09/16 17:53, Mitchell Reese wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, 8 September 2016 4:47:42 AM AEST, Bob Summerwill >>>> <b...@summerwill.net> <b...@summerwill.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Are OEMs not queuing up to ship devices running Touch? >>>> >>>> >>>> I suspect that the answer to that is "no". >>>> >>>> If, as seems likely, both BQ and Meizu have no immediate plans to ship >>>> further Ubuntu Touch devices then that likely means that it is not >>>> economically beneficial to them to do so. That certainly isn't an >>>> appealing market for other OEMs to join. Canonical would likely be >>>> pouring their money down the drain with such a device. >>>> >>>> Mozilla went through a very similar journey with Firefox OS, though >>>> with >>>> way more devices and way more traction. They ended up giving up on >>>> the >>>> device side, and focusing on just community ports, and on application >>>> of >>>> the OS to new (non-mobile) markets. >>>> >>>> Mobile is a tough, tough market to compete with. Commodity Android >>>> devices are very, very compelling to the mass market. Mobile Linux >>>> is a >>>> really niche. See the troubles Jolla have experienced too. Even >>>> Samsung are struggling to make any kind of impact with Tizen - though >>>> that >>>> likely has more to do with their own internal politics than any lack of >>>> resourcing or ability to sell large volumes. >>>> >>>> My personal feeling is that mobile is now "mature", and uninteresting, >>>> like >>>> the PC market. Who really cares if you have an ASUS or an Acer or a >>>> HP or >>>> whatever. They have razor-thin markets and little >>>> differentiation. I >>>> think that is where mobile is getting to be, with Android as the >>>> Windows, >>>> and iOS as the Mac. So iOS is premium and profitable, "because >>>> Apple", >>>> but Android is the de-facto standard, commodity and unprofitable. >>>> That >>>> is a really unappealing place to try to build a third platform. >>>> >>>> Android has utterly skewed manufacturing too, to my understanding, so >>>> that >>>> if you want to get a SoC now, you are going to get Android bootloaders >>>> and >>>> drivers on it. As blobs. And you're just going to have to suck that >>>> up. >>>> Want X11 drivers? No way. >>>> >>>> Tizen is the only mobile Linux which hasn't just made the pragmatic >>>> choice >>>> of avoiding the issue by using Hybris. For everybody else, Android >>>> has >>>> become the de-facto HAL :-) >>>> >>>> So yeah... I have an MX5 Pro as my daily driver and love it. MX4 >>>> before >>>> that. But I don't have much hope of any future Ubuntu Touch mobile >>>> devices. I think we're likely walking dead, but just haven't stopped >>>> walking yet. >>>> >>>> So maybe Jolla and Tizen are the "last men standing" in this space? >>>> For >>>> mobile profile, at least. Tablets are a different story. Ditto IoT >>>> and >>>> Ubuntu Snappy Core. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:49 AM, mark <j.m.hol...@me.com> >>>> <j.m.hol...@me.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> The same thought had crossed my mind. Touch seems to be reaching the >>>> point >>>> of maturity where something of the Edge's specs might come to fruition. >>>> It >>>> would be a winner, imho. >>>> >>>> Are OEMs not queuing up to ship devices running Touch? >>>> >>>> m >>>> >>>> On 07/09/16 14:32, Art wrote: >>>> >>>> Question....... >>>> >>>> I read all the comments, and I am now curious..... >>>> >>>> What is to stop Canonical from releasing their own branded phones right >>>> now?? Just because the current 'offering' isn't Canonical branded, Is >>>> there >>>> anything that prevents them from selling a Canonical branded phone >>>> later >>>> on?? >>>> >>>> After all, now we know that a linux based phone actually works, what is >>>> to >>>> stop Canonical (or even myself) from seeking out an independent phone >>>> OEM, >>>> buying them in bulk and rebranding them, complete with the linux >>>> software >>>> already installed? >>>> >>>> Great list all, I hope to see the linux phone succeed! It's about time >>>> we >>>> take back control of our own phones and block all the 'features' that >>>> rob >>>> us of our privacy!! >>>> >>>> Art >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 09/05/2016 10:49 AM, Krzysztof Tataradziński wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Did anyone from Canonical considered to 'simply' develop phone >>>> themselves >>>> alone, order it in factory and sell with Canonical brand? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmmm. Disagree - thanfully. Otherwise, whats the point? Similar >>>> arguments when Microsoft was still a thing - why compete? >>>> >>>> The thing about Ubuntu is it's also a desktop system - and has the >>>> potential to be much more. Will be interesting to see where this goes, but >>>> I'm backing Canonical. >>>> M >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> > > > -- > b...@summerwill.net > >
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