I seem to have misunderstood the whole discussion. When I read it again I see what you mean and thinks that we both wanted the same thing all the time.
2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> > Nothing. Omar asked a question about a corner case. I answered him, and > then you started saying things that made no sense as a response to what I > was saying. My response applied only to that one device in question. > On Jul 20, 2013 5:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: > >> Of course the desktop interface will support multiple windows. No one >> have ever said otherwise? >> The desktop experience will most probably be very similar to Unity7 >> except for the improved >> indicators in Unity8. >> >> Canonical have already started that Ubuntu will be one code base, >> regardless of the device >> it's run on. Already today you can dynamically switch between mobile and >> tablet interface in >> Unity8 when the desktop interface is ready you will be able to switch >> with that too. All >> devices will of cource run appropriate interface. >> >> I can't really understand what you want to change? >> >> >> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >> >>> I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been >>> listening to me. >>> >>> There are three form factors. >>> -Desktop >>> -Tablet >>> -Phone >>> >>> We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do not >>> know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version of >>> it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being >>> discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too >>> large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop >>> interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is >>> docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter. >>> It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The >>> desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it. >>> I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It >>> will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps. >>> A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop >>> interface with a windowing interface. >>> >>> I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or >>> be a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop >>> interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface. >>> On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: >>> >>>> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface. >>>> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface? >>>> >>>> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like >>>> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to >>>> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi >>>> window. >>>> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that >>>> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always visible >>>> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet. >>>> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows >>>> features work. >>>> >>>> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should >>>> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface >>>> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the >>>> desktop interface aswell. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one >>>>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for >>>>> touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running >>>>> them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It >>>>> would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's >>>>> your >>>>> problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for >>>>> traditional >>>>> desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good >>>>> decision. >>>>> >>>>> -Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by >>>>> side >>>>> -you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse >>>>> -you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like >>>>> >>>>> Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an >>>>> OSK can be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard >>>>> designed for programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen >>>>> would be even better. I've written documents that are dozens of pages long >>>>> on a touchscreen. To someone who is practiced with them, it's a breeze. >>>>> Don't insult touchscreen interfaces just because you're not efficient with >>>>> them. >>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >Why would that be useful? >>>>>> Because you are still interacting with it like a tablet, with touch. >>>>>> Advanced interfaces like LibreOffice or Eclipse wouldn't work >>>>>> not because of the screen size but because of the input type. >>>>>> And if you wants to use desktop applications, why wouldn't >>>>>> you just use the desktop interface? The applications wouldn't >>>>>> be easier to interact with just because the interface of the >>>>>> desktop manager were fitted for touch. >>>>>> >>>>>> OSK is worthless for programming or writing documents, even if the >>>>>> screen is 20". >>>>>> >>>>>> You can't just add in multi-windows and totally change how you would >>>>>> interact with the only argument being "It's BIG!". The input is still >>>>>> as >>>>>> equally limited and broken for desktop interfaces. >>>>>> >>>>>> And no, in isn't Windows 8 all over again. Windows 8 is putting a >>>>>> tablet >>>>>> interface on the desktop. Unity is putting a tablet interface on a >>>>>> tablet and >>>>>> a desktop interface on a desktop. >>>>>> >>>>>> Without writing usecases for massive changes you are doing changes >>>>>> for the sake of changing stuff, probably to the worse. Before you go >>>>>> in >>>>>> and totally change how one interface would work you need to have a >>>>>> very clear plan of what you are doing and why you are doing that. >>>>>> The latter part of that is why use cases would need to be written. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On a large display, there is very rarely enough content to use the >>>>>>> whole screen. If you're using a 20" tablet, it's not for pleasure. It >>>>>>> needs >>>>>>> to use multiple windows. This applies to the keyboard as well. The >>>>>>> keyboard >>>>>>> would be too large to type on if you just stretched it out to a 20" >>>>>>> screen. >>>>>>> Why do you need to write a use case? This use case is plainly obvious. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> would be wasteful to only allow one application on the screen at a time >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> large screens. Even the side stage isn't enough. It would be Windows 8 >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> over again to do that. Besides, we need to support the legacy >>>>>>> applications >>>>>>> like LibreOffice, and Eclipse. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why do you want a single application to fill the whole screen at all >>>>>>> times? Why would that be useful? >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 4:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The thing is, when you are using a tablet inteface. How would you >>>>>>>> intercat with multiple windows? >>>>>>>> We shouldn't add features just for the sake of features, if so we >>>>>>>> would still be using the terminal >>>>>>>> only as it's the only (yet?) invented interface that can do >>>>>>>> anything. We don't want that >>>>>>>> we want an interface that simple and easy to navigate if it looks >>>>>>>> good that would be a bonus. >>>>>>>> To do this we have to say, "this feature should be in because it's >>>>>>>> needed and works". Not just >>>>>>>> "this feature looks cool, lets add it". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Could someone write some good use cases for a multi window/more >>>>>>>> advanced side stage? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode, >>>>>>>>> since that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. >>>>>>>>> You can >>>>>>>>> still maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if >>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>> what you want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 1:49 PM, "Omar B." <estela...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> hmm, I believe we need to think more about the applications and >>>>>>>>>> connected peripherals, than the desktop itself. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On the ASUS Transformer AiO, when the screen gets detached, it >>>>>>>>>> surely becomes a big Tablet. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, I assume it will go from desktop mode to tablet mode (with >>>>>>>>>> probably a possibility of manual override). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In such big tablet form factors I see the usefulness of >>>>>>>>>> multi-window, re-sizing or a more feature-rich side stage being >>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>> to the touch environment. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:30:11 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ? >>>>>>>>>> From: coder...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> To: estela...@hotmail.com >>>>>>>>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the >>>>>>>>>> desktop looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only >>>>>>>>>> significant >>>>>>>>>> difference is that you can move things around and resize them as >>>>>>>>>> windows in >>>>>>>>>> one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> available to desktop mode. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. >>>>>>>>>> Microsoft chose a divided approach, with clear separation between >>>>>>>>>> desktop >>>>>>>>>> and tablet. >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B." <estela...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't >>>>>>>>>> think it would be running tablet style at that point. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS >>>>>>>>>> Transformer AiO. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just desktop mode? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Rasmus Eneman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Rasmus Eneman >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Rasmus Eneman >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rasmus Eneman >> > -- Rasmus Eneman
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