+1 about me. I prefer freedom than sparkly features. Individual and collective freedom is a big and basic feature for IT. Ubuntu & Gnome projects are very concerned about this.
Do you feel this discussion is not working well due to the mailing list way? El 28/02/16 a les 10:38, Tim ha escrit: > > > On 28/02/16 20:12, Usama Akkad wrote: >> If a propriety closed source service/tool without an alternative open >> source service/tool we will use it. > > Right, but what happens when the open source tool is far inferior to the > propriety service/tool. Many Foss fans will just boycott the proprietry > tool and use the inferior open source once. Now this is fine with things like > Vmware vs Vbox or Nvidia Blobs vs nouveau, its a personal decision > and only affects that one person. Its a bit different when you are talking > about an entire team/community, what is going to work/be used should > be a technical decision not a political one. If a proprietry solution is > better than the alternatives we should use that, not that I know if > that applies in this case yet, I have only spent about 5 mins each playing > with slack and mattermost. >> >> This is the real issue. >> >> Just recently Fedora launchpad a project that could be an alternative to >> Github https://fedoramagazine.org/pagure-diy-git-project-hosting/ > gitlab is open-source (well dual licensed) and self-hosted, but few use it > due to the self-hosting requirement. >> >> Other things you talked about like facebook or Google+ are decisions >> that we did not make. Think of it like your cell operator service. does >> it use open source software? Can you do anything about it? > My point with that was more that the same people who argue for open source > only tools, are mostly the same ones who are using proprietry SaaS > Solutions on a daily basis. >> >> Here you can. it's our choice. >> >> >> On 28-02-2016 00:08, Tim wrote: >>> If a proprietry closed source service/tool works well, people will use it. >>> >>> github is a proprietry service, but is used by many open source projects, >>> why? because it works well. >>> >>> Dropbox, Facebook and G+ are all proprietry, yet people use them in masses. >>> >>> VMware is proprietry but works ways better than virtualbox, yet most people >>> boycott it, even though the guest side stack is fully open source >>> (including graphics driver) >>> >>> ZFS is open source, but can't be included in the linux kernel because CDDL >>> is incompatible with GPL. >>> >>> The politics of copyleft licenses do not really define freedom, rather they >>> have tried to re-define the term. >>> >>> On 27/02/16 22:03, Narcis Garcia wrote: >>>> GNU/Linux works better because of permanent community survey and >>>> discussion. It's not possible with closed source tools. >>>> >>>> >>>> El 27/02/16 a les 11:44, Alfredo Hernández ha escrit: >>>>> Some people choose GNU/Linux because it works better, simple as that. >>>>> The purpose and inception of Ubuntu GNOME was not to offer a free >>>>> desktop, but a desktop that works better than the alternatives. >>>>> >>>>> On 27 Feb 2016 11:30 am, "Narcis Garcia" <informat...@actiu.net >>>>> <mailto:informat...@actiu.net>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Tim, you are discussing basic principles that concern Ubuntu and Gnome >>>>> projects too. >>>>> >>>>> IT freedom is very important for people: to control and decide what >>>>> your >>>>> devices do with your data and communications. Privative software >>>>> (gratuitous too) acts the same way as privative services (gratuitous >>>>> too); then I want to put at same level the choose of freedom of >>>>> software >>>>> and freedom of services. >>>>> >>>>> Why do many people choose GIMP instead of Adobe? >>>>> Why do many people choose HTML instead of Flash? >>>>> Why do many people choose mailing lists instead of hosted forums? >>>>> >>>>> Why do we choose Ubuntu and Gnome instead of Windows (embedded too)? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> El 27/02/16 a les 10:39, Tim ha escrit: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On 27/02/16 20:19, Narcis Garcia wrote: >>>>> >> People is discussing two completely different focuses: >>>>> >> Freedom and Gratuity. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> These kind of services (they are services, not software products) >>>>> >> gratuity is ever incompatible with freedom (considering personal >>>>> data as >>>>> >> a monetary value to trade with). >>>>> > Yes, I am not a fan of further fragmenting the comms channels, but >>>>> people ask for these things, and I guess if it takes off, it could >>>>> be better. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I prefer GNU/Linux (including Ubuntu and Gnome) than Windows or >>>>> MacOS >>>>> >> because of freedom matter, including better control over my >>>>> contacts, my >>>>> >> documents and logs, my localization, preferences, activities, etc. >>>>> > Freedom comes at a cost, GPL is like a cancer, while it really got >>>>> the whole open source movement going, these days it seems to cause >>>>> more harm >>>>> > than good. I predict it will be obsolete in 10 years. I think in >>>>> the long term the more permissive BSD/MIT licenses will win out, but >>>>> that is >>>>> > just my opinion. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Services with AGPL licenses concern this matter too. >>>>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_under_the_GNU_AGPL >>>>> > It should be pretty clear by now that open standard services are a >>>>> non-starter look what happened to XMPP, look at what github has done >>>>> > proprietry extensions. >>>>> > >>>>> > Then consider the AGPL is incompatible with GPL, GPLv3 is a mess >>>>> and incompatible with GPLv2. Its a minefield out there, The freedom >>>>> that GNU >>>>> > promotes is costing more than the actual freedom gained. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> El 27/02/16 a les 06:18, Khurshid Alam ha escrit: >>>>> >>> Hi, >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Slack is quite efficient I think. You can have moderated >>>>> channels and >>>>> >>> public channels (still requires a slack id though). It is always >>>>> better >>>>> >>> to go with something that have some sort of notification systems >>>>> for >>>>> >>> mobile and desktops. Free service includes browsing 10k most >>>>> recent >>>>> >>> messages (rest are archived). Shouldn't that be enough? >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Btw, is there a telegram group for Ubuntu-Gnome? I couldn't find >>>>> it. May >>>>> >>> I also join? >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Thanks. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Leo Francisco >>>>> <li...@boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:li...@boywithwings.co.uk> >>>>> >>> <mailto:li...@boywithwings.co.uk >>>>> <mailto:li...@boywithwings.co.uk>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Thanks for that Popey. Will have a play with Mattermost when >>>>> I get a >>>>> >>> chance. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> We should have a look at this, even if it's just for fun. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Leo >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On 19/02/16 13:32, Alan Pope wrote: >>>>> >>> > On 19 February 2016 at 13:14, Leo Francisco >>>>> <li...@boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:li...@boywithwings.co.uk> >>>>> <mailto:li...@boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:li...@boywithwings.co.uk>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >> There are open source alternatives that may be worth >>>>> exploring >>>>> >>> >> MatterMost and RocketChat. There's so much hype around >>>>> Slack atm, not >>>>> >>> >> sure what the long term viability of it is. It's >>>>> basically fancy modern >>>>> >>> >> proprietary IRC. >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> I would always be more enthused by an open source >>>>> solution for the usual >>>>> >>> >> reasons. >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> > On the community team we've been evaluating some of these >>>>> new / >>>>> >>> > fashionable / interesting methods of communication. Slack >>>>> is already >>>>> >>> > available at the following URL, but requires an @ubuntu or >>>>> @canonical >>>>> >>> > email address I believe. It might be possible to be >>>>> invited to join if >>>>> >>> > you don't have one of those though, they're just the >>>>> pre-configured >>>>> >>> > domains I believe. >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > http://ubuntu.slack.com/ >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > We've also been looking at Mattermost, which is a free >>>>> software tool >>>>> >>> > very much like Slack. I spun up a test instance at the >>>>> following URL >>>>> >>> > which people are welcome to play with:- >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > https://mattermost.popey.com/ubuntu/ >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > No guarantees it will stay up, as we're just evaluating >>>>> it, but feel >>>>> >>> > free to join and have a poke around or make a channel for >>>>> your >>>>> >>> > team/group. >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > Cheers, >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -- >>>>> >>> Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list >>>>> >>> Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com >>>>> <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com> >>>>> <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com >>>>> <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com>> >>>>> >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>>>> >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list >>>>> Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com> >>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome >>>>> >>> > > -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
