Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 10:38:28 -0400
From: Dale Ghent via tz <tz@iana.org>
Message-ID: <6acca17a-0681-4c8f-b17b-30d7b2b70...@elemental.org>
| Would it make sense to decouple the "political" data of the timezones
| themselves from the technical tooling?
You're totally misunderstanding the problem. The tzcode part is almost
100% irrelevant in all of this, updates to that are rarely all that
important, and no-one much cares when downstream distributions incorporate
them, typically there is a delay of several years between when some new
feature there is added, and when it might start being used.
What needs to be tested and validated after updates is:
| This would permit what are essentially database updates
that part, that's what controls everything related to releases
(it has been quite a long time since there was a release triggered,
or delayed, by any code update).
| to be distributed on their own, perhaps more aggressive, cadence.
| It would avoid any case of being held back due to in-flight
| or "too fresh" maintenance work on the tools.
That doesn't happen - if something in that area wasn't considered
ready, it would just be moved aside until next time.
| It is entirely possible that I could be overlooking a reason as
| to why they are tied together into a single entity.
Once upon a time they weren't, each happened on its own when needed
(that was when more serious code changing was more common). I suspect
it is largely a matter of convenience for everyone, so that there is
a common version number, and it is easy to tell when something has
been missed (it used to be that the tzXXXNNNNa type labels would move
from a to b for a data update, then to c, and perhaps d for code updates,
then the next data update might be e ... all a bit of a mess (though that
wasn't common, and is all long past).
But this absolutely is not the issue, or any part of it, so it is
irrelevant.
| But I'm of the opinion that the decision of whether to accumulate
| changes or release them immediately as updates/patches should rest
| with those consumers.
It is all in publicly available git as I understand it, anyone able and
willing to use git (which excludes me, I hate it) can fetch and update
any time they want to. Few do.
| This way, if an OS or app maintainer/vendor is asked by a
| customer/user if they have prepared updates for a particular
| upcoming timezone change of interest, the maintainer/vendor has
| the ability to quickly render the necessary update rather than
| waiting on the tzdb maintainer to kick out an official update
They could do that now, they just don't - they (and probably for
reasonable reasons) prefer to wait for the releases. It takes a
lot of research to actually determine when some random change being
made somewhere in the world is truly happening, and not just someone's
random idea of what they would like (that someone perhaps being of
some importance in the relevant region) who is proclaiming that it is
going to happen. Then doesn't.
| Because no one can control when timezone changes happen and how
| much lead-time there is between the legislation being made and the
| change going into effect,
You mean none of us can control it, and that's right - but the people
making that legislation (sometimes it is just some kind of executive
order) certainly can. They're the ones who believe they can order
the clocks to change tomorrow, and it will simply happen, because they
have decreed it. If you (anyone) has been affected by one of these
hasty changes being made you should be making noise in whatever way is
appropriate and complaining publicly about the incompetence of whoever
made the change - embarrass them, that way they might not do it again.
Nb: for this, not complaining about the change that was made (whether
you agree with it or not) but purely with respect to the lead time
allowed.
Those administrations who have some kind of real idea of what is involved
typically try to make changes, and announce them, about 18 months before
any change will affect anything. That gives everyone plenty of time to
update all kinds of things - some of which tend to be printed and
distributed (and yes, people do still print this stuff) once a year or so.
kre
