-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 7/3/2014 3:03 AM, Joe Btfsplk wrote: > > On 7/2/2014 2:21 PM, MacLemon wrote: >> Hey! >> >> On 02 Jul 2014, at 17:56, s7r <s...@sky-ip.org> wrote: >> >>> Signed PGP part On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote: The >>> subject of this attracted my attention. Are we talking here >>> about a clear law, written black on white which states that it >>> is illegal to run Tor relays (or any kind of telecommunications >>> proxy servers) and that you are responsible for your user's >>> actions, even if you provide those services free of charge, >>> therefor not required to collect any data about your users? Is >>> it actually a specific law which was enforced here clearly >>> stating that you cannot run Tor or open proxy servers? >> No, absolutely NOT. Actually, the opposite is the reality. >> Austria has something commonly called the “Provider's Privilege” >> (non-legalese term) which states that a service provider is not >> liable for the data transported over said services. No matter if >> the service is a free or paid one. >> >> >> There is no law that I have ever heard of that prohibits running >> a proxy server or a Tor node in general or in particular. >> Providing an online service in Austria is mostly regulated by >> the Telecommunications law, E-Commerce law and data-protection >> law. >> > Playing Devils' Advocate: If Austria's laws are so protective of > ISPs in general, why was this gentleman convicted? Unless he > ignored the advice I've seen so many times, not to commingle your > own internet traffic w/ the Tor relay traffic. > > Even then, I wonder about a conviction, unless he had the worst > lawyer in the world (which he may have). In the blockchain I saw a pretty good fed of BTC to his donation address - folks in the community didn't turn back on this. With that sum donated there he could arrange for a top lawyer, minimum. I don't know what was the exact rate when he cashed those into FIAT anyway but still it was something.
Probably all was needed to be done was to explain to that (those) judge(s) exactly how Tor works, what it is and how is it not different than running an ISP or simply NOT securing your wi-fi at home with a password. As it was said in previous messages, this case has gone terribly wrong for many reasons - but could have been easily won without spending huge amount of money and without any fancy lawyers. A basic newbie lawyer could have won this. > > There also could be other info which wasn't divulged. I'm not > saying there is - just could be. Be sure there is. I feel the same way, it has to be. > Unless there was a REALLY bad ruling, in which case an appeal might > have a good chance? of over turning it. But I know nothing of > Austrian law. > > However, it seems strange that if he only was running a server & > neither he / a roommate / house guest did anything illegal on a > computer, using the same relay, how it ever got to a conviction. If there was NOTHING on those servers except Tor, those would have been returned to him long time ago, from my point of view. I am just saying and asking myself out of curiosity, I am not making suppositions nor accusations and is none of my business - this should be irrelevant, period. > > If he nor anyone using the physical computer running the relay did > nothing illegal, and he was still convicted (not just questioned > or charged), that would seem to spell doom to other operators. > If you are doing illegalities and use Tor to keep you anonymous, and you want to give back and run a relay, when you are convicted or prosecuted you are not so because of that relay. But if you are law abiding citizen going to work or doing some business within the legal and social limits, and running a relay to support free speech, innovation and freedom of information it's hard to ever be charged with anything (hopefully) - I sincerely hope this is a legal error because of lack of communication and it will not create a precedent. > If that's what can happen, people should think twice & a 3rd time > before ever risk running one. They should think how to add more relays to the network and make it bigger, faster, safer. With each new relay operator all existing relay operators are stronger. - -- s7r PGP Fingerprint: 7C36 9232 5ABD FB0B 3021 03F1 837F A52C 8126 5B11 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTtKnIAAoJEIN/pSyBJlsRcDMH+gIV+YX6xzjYrBR0mICQ8hhR 38Br4cyRob+oPsEm7Jl20VYBQloyFBk/tu2jZny8ryNkmWl/s9S/U3MNuBHasa92 Vmm75WKty1IAJ76w6qJRv5LZZDD0H0leQsaP3qIEaB+eVRWy4zp553kK4plXnEw/ Zk0TkKccahOVN23j9JcIW+PdcJ1O5TKKmIfKexaVwgYLZd4qKq5yG4wgiQfmI6cX GKhZuL4hle6Wpi2uB2J2ufHES0X+BI7qeSWh5lI+qvuss2L+LpYkXuiUykfZQT9o wc6RYFPv+wFN/Kpw/8mmTB4elgSlCeSw7UzBNRrUZMWwws7VJTUPGRlZthvmhXI= =d7ia -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
