Costin Manolache wrote: > > Paul Speed wrote: > > > Any "behind closed doors" discussions have the potential for alienating > > the non-committer community. Determining what conversations are > > appropriate for this other list is a very slippery slope. It's > > :-) > > Yes, I think I know what you mean. Trust me, you're not the only one > who things that, and 'closed doors' is the last thing I want. I see it > more like an 'open doors' situation ( private Cc: -> a larger group ).
Phew. I feel better already. Seriously. > > > already been proposed that votes for new committers be discussed there > > first. What's next? And if the other list starts being used for > > No, I just sugested that it would be nice to avoid some of the > incidents that happened in the past. > > I admit - in most cases I do send a private mail to the person > and few private mails to some other commiters to ask their opinions. > Jumping directly and making the proposal is not the best strategy IMO, > and at least I never did that without at least a second opinion. > So the only thing that will change is having this 'do you think it's > a good idea' sent to everyone. And avoid 'no, I don't think so because ...' > in the public list. Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but some of that should end up public. Fine line. For example, let me paint a (hopefully) brief picture. I'm probably one of your more avid non-committers: I still read (and to some extent participate) even though I haven't used tomcat professionally in over two years. I've been on the list for maybe three years... lost count. During a period of unemployment a year ago, my itch was to bring the SSI stuff up to spec and so I mostly rewrote the SSI servlet and associated classes. These were accepted and committed to head. All was well and even kept up on recommending people stay away from the older version when issues would crop up in bugzilla. Eventually I got a job and spent a few months off the list. During that time someone else also found the old SSI code lacking and rewrote it again without ever noticing that there was alreay a newer better version. Unfortunately, the committers didn't notice either and all of my work was blown away. Sad, but such is life sometimes. Anyway, long story short, this person was made committer shorlty after that, persumably just to maintain the SSI code. There was some controversy on this list at the time about whether or not this was appropriate since there hadn't been many other contributions from said person. If I hadn't witnessed this conversation, it really would have added insult to injury when they were made committer. Instead, it was no big deal at all other than a little disappointment. So, that's probably why your earlier committer vote proposal comment grabbed my interest in this thread. Ok, so not brief. Oh well, -Paul > > > As a non-committer but long-time subscriber to this list, my opinion > > is that _all_ messages on "the other" list must absolutely show up > > here eventually, at some delay. Otherwise, there is no longer any > > transparency. (This is also the biggest reason it's better than > > CCed e-mails; because the messages will always be public at some > > point.) > > I agree for most part. And I think that an all-commiter list is better > than Cc: chains with few people, it's more inclusive and better for > everyone. Regarding all-messages to the list - I agree, all information > should get to tomcat-dev, ( unless whoever posts it wants to keep it > private ). > > One of the reasons Cc: is used is because some people > don't want certain issues to become public ( for example me asking > Remy really dumb questions on JNDI :-). I think it would be better > if most of the Cc: will go to the commiters list, and most of the > commiters list will go to tomcat-dev. Both are improvements > over current situation IMO. > > And besides - if someone really wants to be on the commiters list, > there is a way to do it, and we are all happy to get more people > involved ( and on the list ) :-) > > Costin > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@;jakarta.apache.org> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:tomcat-dev-help@;jakarta.apache.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@;jakarta.apache.org> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:tomcat-dev-help@;jakarta.apache.org>
