> > 2) When a revolution is ready for prime time, the committer proposes a
> > merge to the -dev list. At that time, the overall community evaluates
> > whether or not the code is ready to become part of, or to
> > potentially replace the, trunk. Suggestions may be made, changes may be
> > required. Once all issues have been taken care of and the merge is
> > approved, the new code becomes the trunk.
>
> One of the agenda items for the meeting will be to discuss whether or not
> the Jakarta PMC adopts this document. So far, it isn't officially adopted.
Ah, so it was ok for starting catalina, and a large number of _commiters_
voted on it - but it's not valid until the PMC adopts it ?
So what you don't like has to be voted by the PMC :-) ?
> > Is the mail you are pointing on the announcement that Catalina is "ready
> > for prime time" ? It looks like a repetition of the original proposal that
> > Craig submited one year ago ( i.e. "Tomcat.Next").
>
> It was a proposal on what to do next. Which is what this discussion is all
> about.
Yes, it was about moving catalina in a separate CVS and implementing
servlet 2.3 and calling it tomcat 4.0. Not about replacing 3.x or droping
development.
And as the time has proven, calling it 4.0 didn't get more people
involved.
( but created the confusion about 2 completely different codebases with
the same name, and then for claims that Servlet2.3 support isn't allowed
for 3.x because it's confusing - since 4.0 has the same name )
> >> Now, he wants to go against what everyone voted for by continuing on with
> >> the development of Tomcat 3.x indefinitely. I'm going to call him on that
> >
> > Besides the people who were working on Tomcat4, the only commiters that
> > voted +1 are Duncan and Hans.
>
> So what? According to the rules, it takes 3 +1 votes and zero -1 votes.
But that's still far away from what you claim to be ( or make it sound
like ) the overwhealming majority of commiters deciding to drop 3.x and
move to 4.0. In fact the commit history shows pretty much that following
that decision nothing change - the same people continued to work on 4.0.
> Tell me Costin, why didn't YOU vote?
Because Craig complained to my manager, and she asked me to refrain from
some posting. Which turned to be a great thing - since arguing about the
technical mistakes in Catalina's design was driving attention and interest
to it.
Since the proposal didn't brough anything new ( Craig was calling it .next
from the beginning, and moving it out in a separate tree was not my
problem ) and since it didn't sparked any interest I choosed to ignore it
- the even wanted to sent a +0 ( == do whatever you want with 4.0,
let me know when you are done so we can check the claims you make ), but
I didn't thought it's worth it.
> I'm stating that, according to the rules, the proposal received enough +1
> votes and zero -1 votes and that does indeed make it valid.
>
> This isn't a democracy based on popular vote.
Oh, no - more an oligarchy.
> > Are you saying that the proposal meant to replace 3.x with 4.0 ? When 4.0
> > was still 6 months away from alpha ?
>
> Nope. I didn't say that.
Then why do you point us to that proposal ?
> > Quick poll - how many of you ( who voted or not at that time ) read the
> > proposal as "3.x development should stop, Catalina has proven to be
> > better" ?
>
> Nope. I don't.
>
> But, if you phrase your question according to what the proposal was
> suggesting in the first place, I would agree with it.
How convenient - well, maybe a lawyer would make sense. ( I can't resist
repeating that in this case the judge is also representing a side - so
probably a lawyer won't help )
> > And how many commiters ( including Hans and Duncan ) did stoped working on
> > 3.x and started working on 4.0 ?
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
you claim that the project decision was to move into 4.0 direction, and
this proposal is exactly that and the commiters aproved that - well, then
what happened ?
> > Yes, this is supposed to be a community effort - and it has been so far.
>
> Right. Because you haven't been acting like part of the community.
Yes, spending all the time contributing to tomcat - just to be trashed and
flamed by "community members" like you.
--
Costin
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