Hiya,
On 27/10/2020 22:28, Mark Nottingham wrote:
Stephen, I don't think what you're complaining about can be attributed to GitHub. Tools are just tools, how they're used is what's relevant (i.e., this could just as easily happen over e-mail).
Sorta. I doubt the volume of traffic would've happened via email for non-contentious, not-trivial-but-not-earthshaking topics. I "watch" the repos for these drafts, and in just the last month, I've seen 401 esni emails, 127 hpke emails and 157 dns-alt-svc emails. That's too many, is encouraged by the tools IMO and has to mean a lot not being discussed on the list that ought be. So I do think the tooling is really part of this. But yes, had someone taken on the mega-task of bringing the useful bits of those 683 mails per month to the list, it may have been that the mismatch would've been avoided. Cheers, S. PS: I neglected to say in my earlier mail that hpke-05 has an interop bug that we discovered when I was verifying the test vectors a few months ago. It's not the right basis to pick if we want esni-08 to be used for interop really. But more to the point, nor is a moving target.
Cheers,On 28 Oct 2020, at 7:31 am, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farr...@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: Hiya, The latest ECH draft from Oct 16 says "ECH uses draft-05 of HPKE for public key encryption."The latest HPKE draft (-06) from Oct 23 has a few minor incompatible changes (for good but relatively trivial reasons).So for interop ECH apparently requires use of an outdated I-D, despite the one week difference in publishing and a common co-author. It seems a bit mad that all that githubbery results in such a lack of co-ordination in two closely related specs. Anyway, I can manage to handle both HPKE-05 and HPKE-06 but this seems like yet another case where there is too much githubbery going on with the result that two closely linked drafts with a common co-author end up out of whack despite being issued within a week of one another. That and the velocity of discussion and changes on github are a major disincentive (for me) for implementing ECH. I simply do not have the cycles to keep up with it as it has been happening these last months. If that were the goal of the authors and those endlessly commenting on github (and I do not believe it is), then they would be close to reaching that goal. Can we not please freeze this stuff for at least long enough to get implementations done and somewhat tested? Frankly, I expect my plea here to be more or less ignored just as my previous entreaties were. I decided to send it anyway on the basis that the perhaps what seems like an obvious failure of the current approach (ECH can't interop unless you use an outdated I-D for HPKE) might show that all this apparent high velocity discussion on github is not as effetcive as claimed (in at least this case). Thanks, Stephen._______________________________________________ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls-- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/
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