I don't think I suggested that Voiceover was free on Apple products. It is clearly included in the cost of the product but, there is equity in that anyone buying an Apple product pays the same.
I am very aware that Apple lock you into their services and products and to be honest... Over all, I just prefer Nokia, all I can do with it, the response of Talks when using it etc. But, it is inevitable that people are going to consider the jump from one platform where things seem to be going backwards to one where they seem to be moving forwards and weighing up the pro's and con's on either side in the process. Supply and demand? The more immediate thing on this thread though was Nokia and lack of accessibility to their products in a stand alone sense and their seeming to illude to their accessibility by default when they use people with a visual impairment to advertise some or all of the phones merrits. Cheers. Paul On 27/02/2011, Saqib <sa...@samobile.net> wrote: > I agree whole heartedly with that statement Neil. I would much prefer > to carry on using My rather Laborious Nokia E5 over using an Apple > Iphone. Prodoctivity would be the main reason here and I don't know how > anyone would be able to dial numbers when connected to an banking > automated system. I could just about manage this with Mobile Speak in > keypad mode but never achieved it with Talks. I did however look at the > I-pod Touch yesterday for the first time and have to say that the Voice > Over sound quality is not good enough to hear in a outdoor environment. > I was traveling back from Hereford yesterday as I went there for the > football and I really struggled to hear the Voice Over on my friends > I-pod Touch. I would still consider purchasing one for media usage at home. > Original message: >> although not directly Talks related, it is in fact a defence of Talks >> and indeed this way of doing things. > >> iPhone gets a lot of praise for a good number of reasons, firstly, yes, >> there's a lot of apps which work out of the box, and these can >> genuinely make your life easier. next up, their products, i mean >> Apple's, are very nice to the touch and you get a feeling of being the >> owner of a modern, sleek, stylish bit of kit when you own one. > >> but, you need to keep in mind, Apple have a very good way of >> franchising their users, almost turning their users into a massive >> marketing machine working for them, you rarely here and Apple device >> owner slatting it, or even coming close to making any form of >> disparaging remark about it. > >> does this mean that they are perfect or the route ahead, possibly, but >> not necessarily. do I own one, yes, for the reasons expected, no... > >> So why buy an APple i device, the apps really has to be the thing, does >> this mean you need an iPhone, no, do it cheaper and get an iPod Touch, >> more storage room, finner design and cheaper both at the outset and long >> term. > >> why not get an iPHone, the audio quality during a call is in my >> experience worse than a Nokia and other devices, all the iPhone's I >> have owned, now up at 7 of them, resinate when using the internal ear >> piece during calls when at the top 3 volume settings. the microphone >> also does a poorer job at sound reproduction than say a Nokia. > >> Voice Over for all its benefits of being so to speak free and right >> there on day one aren't quite true now are they. a new iPhone 4 with >> 32Gb of memory will set you back a small fortune on the first day, then >> quite a bit more than a basic phone tariff there after for 24 months. >> do you need all the network carrier chucks in there, probably not, but >> you have no choice. > >> on the other hand, a basic Nokia or even a pretty dam good one can be >> bought invariably for less, even with a 32Gb memory card, then you can >> opt for a SIM card only tariff on a package that suits you. even >> throwing in a full copy of Talks, you are miles better off. > >> this is when free doesn't mean free. I would argue that Voice Over is >> not free, but included in the price, there is a big difference in this >> statement. > >> Do not get me wrong folks, I congratulate Apple for doing this for our >> community, think it is an excellent product, but it does lack many of >> the features of say Talks or Mobile Speak, is difficult to use tone >> menu systems in calls owing to the call volume not dipping below that >> of Voice Over, and other problems, of course Apple could fix these, but >> for now, my view is the Touch is a better choice than the iPhone itself. > >> its just a view, but as I see more and more people thinking the iPhone >> will solve their problems, i think its fair and wise to point out some >> of these things before folk jump simply as Apple people seem to drink >> the cool ade a little to much for my liking. > >> I do not wish to move this list away from Talks, so can I just point >> out that this above remark is strictly in the context of helping folk >> to make an informed thought process over Talks / Ms / Voice Over. > > > > >> Regards, > >> Neil Barnfather >> Talks List Administrator > >> Twitter @NeilBarnfather > >> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > >> URL: - www.talknav.com >> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > >> On 26 Feb 2011, at 16:36, Eleanor Burke wrote: > >> I concur with all you say Paul but I think we would need to know for >> certain that the person in the advert is actually blind, or an actor! >> I know for my part I have not enjoyed the experience of using N97 Mini >> so am reluctant to move to iPhone but I do hear a lot of people >> speaking so highly of it. On the Talks front though, I have only been >> using a mobile phone with Talks for under 3 years and I have never >> looked back and never will look back. Just wish we could somehor or >> other keep Talks going for as long as possible. I would hate to see >> the software developers of Talks pushed out of the market. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hopkins" <vipodcast...@gmail.com> >> To: "Talks Mailing List" <talks@talksusers.com> >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 4:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [Talks] Nokia Accessibility & Maps - Commentary > > >>> Sorry Matt?! > >>> When I read your message the first time, I thought you were talking to >>> me but, then I realised that essentially, you are agreeing with me. > >>> Or, am I wrong? > >>> When you say, awfully disingenuous, I presume you are talking about >>> Nokia? > >>> Just wanted to check as my head is fuzzy with assignment work. :) > >>> I agree with you in regard to a Nokia preference and I was struggling >>> to use the likes of the 5100 with a magnifier long before Talks was >>> around. So, probably been using them for around 15 years. > >>> And yet, I'll go to IPhone, as soon as I can afford it, whatever its >>> constraints to us or the learning curve, because they have got, or >>> have been made to get the notion of having accessibility right out of >>> the box. > >>> I fully understand that it was always the third party apps like Talks >>> that enabled access to Nokia phones in the first place... And that, to >>> some extent, they were always playing catch up. But, when they are >>> being potentially frozen out altogether as new development takes place >>> in Nokia World and then Nokia are using VI People to Market their >>> products, I have a problem. > >>> Cheers. > >>> Paul > >>> On 26/02/2011, Matthew Chao <mattc...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> Hi, Paul! That's awfully disingenuous. No wonder people who are >>>> blind or visually impaired are looking more at the iPhone. I like >>>> Nokia phones because I like the good ol' fashioned keypad. But >>>> what's the point if the PC software becomes inaccessible, and you >>>> can't download maps to save battery power and not be online every >>>> time you need to navigate. Besides, there are times when you have no >>>> cell coverage, but still have GPS access. So, what happens when the >>>> online maps go away? A cobbled solution at best, or say what you >>>> mean, mean what you say.--Matthew Chao > >>>> At 10:43 AM 2/26/2011, you wrote: >>>>> Its worse than that! > >>>>> Have you seen the N8 advert on TV at the moment where you have a blind >>>>> photographer using said N8 to take a photo of a roller coaster? > >>>>> As far as I know, there is nothing on the N8 in its own right which >>>>> makes it accessible enough for a blind person to access it... Third >>>>> party software like Talks not withstanding. > >>>>> How stupid are they at Nokia? > >>>>> I'm very, very happy to support any genuine effort if they make a >>>>> propper effort at accessibility but, for them to make out that all is >>>>> good cause they show a few blind people using their products is either >>>>> miss guided at best or, down right lies at worse. > >>>>> So, if anyone does have contacts to decision makers in Nokia who can >>>>> listen and take part in good constructive dialogue, I'd be interested >>>>> too. > >>>>> Cheers. > >>>>> Paul > >>>>> On 26/02/2011, Matthew Chao <mattc...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, Folks! Regarding Ovi Maps and not being able to download them, I >>>>>> got up on the Nokia Web site, went to the Accessibility link, and >>>>>> then went to the Vision link. > >>>>>> First, overall, it was nice to see a story of a woman using Ovi Maps >>>>>> to navigate, but nothing about full accessibility. That is, sure, we >>>>>> can use the maps, but only online, given how accessible Ovi Suite is >>>>>> NOT. > >>>>>> Second, on the main Web site under software support, it''s mentioned >>>>>> that PC Suite will be replaced by Ovi Suite, which, as we know, is >>>>>> currently inaccessible to screenreaders on the PC. > >>>>>> Finally, Ovi Store also seems to be inaccessible. Could actually >>>>>> make use of that app if it was accessible. > >>>>>> My question is: has anyone contacted Nokia regarding the >>>>>> accessibility issues, and if so, has there been any feeback from >>>>>> them? If no one has brought the accessibility issue to Nokia's >>>>>> attention, is there anyone in Support who we could contact? Thanks >>>>>> in advance for any ideas regarding this matter.--Matthew Chao > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Talks mailing list >>>>>> Talks@talksusers.com >>>>>> http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > >>>>>> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >>>>>> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >>>>>> and >>>>>> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > > > >>>>> -- >>>>> Paul Hopkins >>>>> Please feel free to go to the links below to find out more about the >>>>> Podcasts and audio downloads I produce and edit: > >>>>> Outlook UK Audio Magazine articles (available as individual audio >>>>> downloads): > >>>>> http://www.outlook-uk.org/connecting/outlook-audio-cd-magazine > >>>>> The Look Podcast page: > >>>>> http://www.lookpodcast.libsyn.com > >>>>> Subscribe FREE to The Look Podcast with: > >>>>> http://www.lookpodcast.libsyn.com/rss > >>>>> Vipodcasting Podcast page: > >>>>> http://www.vipodcasting.libsyn.com > >>>>> Subscribe to Vipodcasting with: > >>>>> http://www.vipodcasting.libsyn.com/rss > >>>>> I am also on SKYPE, just search for vipodcasting. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Talks mailing list >>>>> Talks@talksusers.com >>>>> http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > >>>>> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >>>>> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >>>>> and >>>>> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>>> signature database 5909 (20110226) __________ > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Talks mailing list >>>> Talks@talksusers.com >>>> http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > >>>> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >>>> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >>>> and >>>> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > > > >>> -- >>> Paul Hopkins >>> Please feel free to go to the links below to find out more about the >>> Podcasts and audio downloads I produce and edit: > >>> Outlook UK Audio Magazine articles (available as individual audio >>> downloads): > >>> http://www.outlook-uk.org/connecting/outlook-audio-cd-magazine > >>> The Look Podcast page: > >>> http://www.lookpodcast.libsyn.com > >>> Subscribe FREE to The Look Podcast with: > >>> http://www.lookpodcast.libsyn.com/rss > >>> Vipodcasting Podcast page: > >>> http://www.vipodcasting.libsyn.com > >>> Subscribe to Vipodcasting with: > >>> http://www.vipodcasting.libsyn.com/rss > >>> I am also on SKYPE, just search for vipodcasting. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talks mailing list >>> Talks@talksusers.com >>> http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > >>> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >>> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >>> and >>> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > >> _______________________________________________ >> Talks mailing list >> Talks@talksusers.com >> http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > >> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >> and >> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > >> _______________________________________________ >> Talks mailing list >> Talks@talksusers.com >> http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > >> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >> and >> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > Talks mailing list > Talks@talksusers.com > http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks > > Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: > eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ > and > Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ > -- Paul Hopkins Please feel free to go to the links below to find out more about the Podcasts and audio downloads I produce and edit: Outlook UK Audio Magazine articles (available as individual audio downloads): http://www.outlook-uk.org/connecting/outlook-audio-cd-magazine The Look Podcast page: http://www.lookpodcast.libsyn.com Subscribe FREE to The Look Podcast with: http://www.lookpodcast.libsyn.com/rss Vipodcasting Podcast page: http://www.vipodcasting.libsyn.com Subscribe to Vipodcasting with: http://www.vipodcasting.libsyn.com/rss I am also on SKYPE, just search for vipodcasting. _______________________________________________ Talks mailing list Talks@talksusers.com http://lists.talksusers.com/mailman/listinfo/talks Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ and Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/
