> By the way, I saw some changes leading to x10 contribution rates and
be criticized as disrupting longstanding practices or established tagging.
An actual example would be really useful here.
> Establishment nor longstanding practices shouldn't be valid reasons
on their own to justify decision making about tagging.
Indeed - if a proposal (even a reorganisation of existing usage) allows
better information to be collected then it makes sense to do it. The
"diplomatic" reorganisation was one such (though the implementation was
botched). In this case, I'm not convinced that this proposal has any
benefit. We have edge cases now; after this proposal we will still have
a whole bunch of slightly different edge cases.
> How about considering tagging as an independent valuable thing we
should take care of as well?
Because it isn't? It's literally just describing how things are stored
within OSM. Anyone coming to OpenStreetMap as a mapper for the first
time won't see tags at all - their editor will look after that for
them. A data consumer will have a simplified view of the world and will
have to map OSM concepts into the ones that they are interested in.
As a concrete example, here:
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L6003
is where I take a bunch of things from OSM and map them into a concept
that is displayed on a map ("Variety Stores", shown with a "£"
symbol**). A map for a different platform, here:
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/mkgmap_style_ajt/blob/master/transform_03.lua#L1760
has a mapping onto a different category, "General Stores". This is
because this map is for Garmin devices which (by default) have a
hardcoded series of categories that the search menus know about, and
"Variety Stores" isn't one of them, but "General Stores" is.
Almost no-one in the outside world is going to want to distinguish
between the actual OSM values here; they're only interested in their own
real-world concepts. In many cases this may be much broader-brush,
perhaps "shops that sell food" vs "shows that primarily sell non-food",
or even just "shops".
Anyone suggesting widespread changes such as this needs to explain how
this proposal will help with at least one of the following:
* Allowing new mappers to contribute to OSM easier than they currently can
* Allowing some nuance to be captured that can't be captured now
* Make life easier for data consumers in some way
and the benefit needs to be proportional to the necessary upheaval
(which in this case would be significant). Note that "satisfying the
data normalisation urges of people familiar with working with databases"
isn't on that list.
Best Regards,
Andy
** apologies to anyone with a pocketful of € instead of £
On 13/02/2023 12:21, François Lacombe wrote:
Hello
Le ven. 10 févr. 2023 à 19:29, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
<tagging@openstreetmap.org> a écrit :
Or to be more specific solved problems, if any, are much smaller
than size
of change of longstanding tagging practices.
To me, it's a return of experience matter and a debate we should
provide with facts.
OSM has been created to question longstanding practices, how the same
can be raised to prevent its own evolution nowadays?
Many attempts to change longstanding practices in the past had
unleashed contribution and bring more visibility on covered topics.
I made a presentation at SOTM France last year about what benefits
tagging development brings to OSM.
Studying chronology tabs on taginfo learn us a lot about how the
community reacts with such changing, despite changes may be slow or
significant.
The methodology and efforts deployed to achieve the rollout of new
tagging should be adapted in regard of amounts of features to retag,
yes (and we will never be perfect from that perspective).
By the way, I saw some changes leading to x10 contribution rates and
be criticized as disrupting longstanding practices or established tagging.
Establishment nor longstanding practices shoudn't be valid reasons on
their own to justify decision making about tagging.
How about considering tagging as an independent valuable thing we
should take care of as well?
Best regards
François
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