Bicycle or hiking routes in OSM that are not trailblazed have one big drawback: they confuse data end users (they are looking for the signs, and if there are none, think they have taken the wrong turn.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020, 19:21 brad, <bradha...@fastmail.com> wrote: > > > On 1/12/20 4:23 PM, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > Paris is the capital of France because it has all the main government > facilities: the legislature, the executive, the judiciary and most > ministries. > > Routes that are mapped in Openstreetmap need to be signed or marked in a > visible way. Otherwise every Stava user will add their favorite training > loop to the map as a running route or road cycling route. > > Joseph > > I think this is an overreaction. There are many routes that meet the > wiki description (and my own reasonableness test) that are not signed or > marked. I do see many routes in my area that should not be routes, but > that is only a minor annoyance. > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:02 AM Florimond Berthoux < > florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Asking me how do I know that Eurovelo 3 is for tourism or bicycle >> trekking is like asking me how do I know that Paris is the capital of >> France. >> « Is there a sign saying that Paris is the capital of France? May be we >> should remove that tag, don't you think?... » >> >> You don't need sign post to have a route, do you have a sign post at the >> intersection of those routes ? >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.1485/-4.1705 >> I doubt that. >> >> This is how the Wiki define a route: >> « A *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or travel, often >> predetermined and publicized. Routes consist of paths taken repeatedly by >> people and vehicles: a ship on the North Atlantic route, a car on a >> numbered road, a bus on its route or a cyclist on a national route. » >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route >> >> So to paraphrase this for road biking route : >> « A road bicycle *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or >> travel, often predetermined and publicized as such. Road bicycle routes >> consist of paths taken repeatedly by road cyclist. » >> >> And if you don't know then don't tag it and don't manage it. >> >> Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 23:35, Joseph Eisenberg < >> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> a écrit : >> > >> > > I am not against distinguishing more types of cycling routes, I am >> all for it, as long as it's verifyable, mappable with clear tagging, and >> manageable. >> > >> > +1 >> > >> > I started using Openstreetmap because I wanted to add touring routes >> > and recreational bike routes in RideWithGPS and then found out that >> > http://ridewithgps.com uses Openstreetmap data which I could edit. And >> > I get to work and take kids to school and shop by bike - I haven't >> > owned a car for 9 years. >> > >> > So I would love to have more information about what streets and roads >> > are best for getting from point A to B, and which ones are nice for >> > training rides and which ones are fun for tours. >> > >> > But tags have to be verifiable: if the next mapper can't confirm that >> > a tag as right, the data in Openstreetmap will not be maintained >> > properly. Subjective tags cannot work. >> > >> > I have seen this happen: before I mapped here, I used to try to >> > improve the bike routes in Portland Oregon for Google Maps. But since >> > there was no definition of a "preferred" bicycle street, and it was >> > hard to delete a preferred route once it was added, the bike layer was >> > full of disconnected segments. Some were from old city maps of bike >> > routes, some were based on the personal preference of the mapper, and >> > some were actually signed or marked on the ground, but you couldn't >> > tell them apart. >> > >> > If there is a sign or marking that specifies that a certain route is >> > designed for mountain bikes or for bike racing, then sure, you can tag >> > that. But most bike routes do not have anything to specify that they >> > are more for commuting or more for recreation, and in that case we >> > can't tag the distinction. >> > >> > Fortunately, database users (like routing applications) can look at >> > other Openstreetmap data, like surface=* tags on ways, and external >> > data like elevation models, to determine if a route is a difficult >> > single-track trail through the hills versus a flat paved path along a >> > canal, and use this to help route cyclists appropriately. >> > >> > - Joseph Eisenberg >> >> -- >> Florimond Berthoux >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing > listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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