Il sab 21 dic 2019, 12:33 Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> This is missing the point. > I only want to point out that apparently roundtrip=yes without any > additional tagging is being used as meaning "this route is a loop" and > "round-trip=no" as meaning it's an A-to-b route. This should remain valid. > It is. Well, with latest wiki version: Roundtrip=yes is A to B (to C?) to A. Roundtrip=no is A to B (to C?) And let us consider how to cater for other cases. > Sure .. but if you're open to the change.. Any retagging would mean a lot of manual work. I cannot see any simple way > (leaving out AI) to determine whether any given route is a loop or > something else. > I feel this is the right approach... We can define how to fix existing routes as soon as we find an eligible approach > > On Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 11:27 Francesco Ansanelli, <franci...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> And with existing tags how you describe it? >> >> Il sab 21 dic 2019, 10:28 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha scritto: >> >>> On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: >>> >>> Dear Volker, >>> >>> I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again: >>> >>> Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the >>> same location. >>> >>> I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's fine >>> for both definitions. >>> My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop tag in favour of: >>> >>> roundtrip:type=linear|circular >>> >>> Do you agree? >>> >>> >>> No. >>> >>> "Type" means nothing. Perhaps roundtrip:route=*??? >>> >>> As for the values .. you will need to define them! >>> >>> 'My' local bus route starts off with ways that are used both directions >>> .. and then separates into a loop where the segments are only used in one >>> direction. >>> >>> I could imaging routes that have several loops used in one direction >>> and then ways that are used in both directions .. arrr there is another >>> route that does that ... >>> >>> So what values will there be to cover complex cases??? >>> >>> >>> Francesco >>> >>> >>> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 22:45 Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com> ha scritto: >>> >>>> Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other >>>> wiki-changes on halt for a moment. >>>> What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being used >>>> (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the use should >>>> be) and in particular if there is a more-than sporadic use of >>>> roundtrip=yes|no for anything else than loop=yes|no. >>>> It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but: >>>> A fast overpass turbo wizard query >>>> "type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in >>>> Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern" >>>> resulted in >>>> Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops >>>> France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops >>>> England: 25 lines, all loops. >>>> USA: 29, about 6 non-loops >>>> Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops >>>> For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of all cycle >>>> route relations in these countries that have a roundrip=yes are in fact >>>> loops and that that this is the de-facto use of the tag. >>>> I think this is a strong case against any change. >>>> >>>> Taginfo points in the same direction >>>> 12665 roundtrip=no >>>> 21774 roundtrip=yes >>>> 42 closed_loop=yes >>>> no closed_loop=no >>>> >>>> Volker >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli <franci...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In my opinion the options are: >>>>> >>>>> - deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally agreed >>>>> naming convention (best at this point) >>>>> - keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I did change >>>>> (relations must be updated accordingly) >>>>> >>>>> I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point out that is >>>>> not a resolution because tag is currently messed up >>>>> >>>>> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr <doerr.step...@gmail.com> ha >>>>> scritto: >>>>> >>>>>> On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted are >>>>>> dictionary for American English, not the variant of English used by OSM. >>>>>> Posts by original author of the topic on the wiki talk page have >>>>>> explained >>>>>> the meaning of the term in British English. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The OED definitions read as follows: >>>>>> >>>>>> Originally U.S. >>>>>> A. n. >>>>>> 1. >>>>>> a. A journey to a place and back again, along the same route; (also) >>>>>> a journey to one or more places and back again which does not cover the >>>>>> same ground twice, a circular tour or trip. >>>>>> >>>>>> b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining and Oil Industry) an >>>>>> act of withdrawing and replacing a drill pipe. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or an instance of >>>>>> buying and selling the same stock, commodity, etc., often simultaneously. >>>>>> Cf. round turn n. 4. >>>>>> >>>>>> B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various senses). Cf. return n. >>>>>> Compounds 1. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal and figurative). >>>>>> >>>>>> C. adv. Chiefly North American. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a round trip; by travelling to a place and back again. >>>>>> >>>>>> Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North American'. It's an >>>>>> American phrase, though now widely adopted in the UK. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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