On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:43, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Am Do., 19. Sept. 2019 um 09:18 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com > >: > >> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 00:33, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> I agree the term silvopasture is not a synonym for meadow orchards. A >>> meadow orchard is specifically low density/sparse trees, while silvopasture >>> indicates a forest/woodland, i.e. denser tree cover. >>> >> >> Really? I don't see anything in the Wikipedia article that specifies the >> tree cover is dense. >> > > > I didn't write it was "dense", I wrote it was "denser", compared to a > meadow orchard. > I see a range of tree densities in the Wikipedia article. it is using the term "woodland". For meadow orchards, I would use the term > "meadow" with trees on it. The term "silvo" also is about a "forest"/woods. > Can you see the difference? > And the term "pasture" is about pastures. Can you see the similarities? Also the meadow in meadow orchard can be used for either pasture or cutting >> the grass, while silvopasture implies pasture. >> > So you object to silvopasture on the grounds that it implies pasture but want orchard_meadow (which implies meadow) yet just admitted that the meadow in an orchard meadow can be used either as a meadow OR as a pasture. If you were being consistent you would insist on silvomeadowpasture or propose orchard_pasture too. I suspect that what is really behind your insistence is you want a literal, word-for-word translation of a German term rather than the English term for the same thing. BTW, we're probably fooling ourselves in many cases where we say a field is >> pasture or >> > meadow: it may change from year to year. >> > places in southern Germany used for pasture are often in environments where > (mechanically) cutting the grass is not feasible, due to steep terrain, or > where mowing does not make a lot of sense because the soil is quite magre. > I said in many cases, not all cases. We have hill farms around here where mowing is not feasible. But where mowing is possible farmers move animals around fields from year to year so that the droppings provide nutrients and improve the physical properties of the soil. In some cases I would be confident that a field is pasture and will never be used as a meadow but less often would I be confident that field is pasture and will never be used as a meadow. My point was that "silvopasture" has different connotations, it is about > (some kind of) forest with animals grazing below, > I don't see that connotation. From the Wikipedia article: "Silvopasture can be established by planting trees into existing pasture <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasture> [...]" and "Integrating pasture into existing woodland presents challenges as well: the woodland likely needs to be thinned to increase light infiltration," Neither of those quotes support that silvopasture is about turning animals loose into a forest. > while meadow orchards is about meadows with sparse (fruit) trees on them > (or sparse orchards on a meadow, if you like to put it the other way round). > Not only does the Wikipedia article state that you can put trees into pasture but it shows pictures of fields with sparse trees. Silvopasture requires pasture, meadow orchards don't. > A wise man once told me "Also the meadow in meadow orchard can be used for either pasture or cutting the grass." So meadow_orchard is as wrong as silvopasture. -- Paul
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