Let's restart this with some basics. According to Wikipedia:en <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus>: " A *bus* (contracted from *omnibus*,[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus#cite_note-EB1911-1> with variants *multibus*, *motorbus*, *autobus*, etc.) is a road vehicle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_vehicle> designed to carry many passengers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger>." with the possible subclasses: " Buses may be used for scheduled bus transport <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport_bus_service>, scheduled coach transport <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_(scheduled_transport)>, school transport <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_transport>, private hire, or tourism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_bus_service>; promotional buses may be used for political campaigns <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_campaign> and others are privately operated for a wide range of purposes, including rock and pop band tour vehicles" The official German term is "Kraftomnibus" <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus> (according to the German version of the EU documents)
Unfortunately in OSM the term "bus" <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buses>is used for public-transport buses only: " *Buses*, *coaches* and *trolley buses* are forms of public transport <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport> that operate mainly on the road network. The system consists of bus routes calling at bus stops and bus stations and have a number of related features." (also to note that in OSM "coaches" are included in the category PT-bus) And (answering to another question somewhere in this discussion) there are cases where we need in OSM an access tag for these generic buses, for example to map the access restriction announced by this road sign <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildtafel_der_Verkehrszeichen_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_seit_2017#/media/Datei:Zeichen_257-54_-_Verbot_f%C3%BCr_Kraftomnibusse,_StVO_2017.svg> . Given the orginal "sin" of wrongly limiting the term "bus" to public-transport buses in OSM (which I believe cannot be undone), we need to sort this out by creating other terms. I have no proposal for this, but the original proposal of defining positions where non-PT buses load/unload passengers is basically a good one. The real problem is to properly define different classes of mulit-seated-motor-vehicles-with-more-than-8-seats, and then revisit the existing tags accordingly. Regarding "bus" stops: PT-buses in many countries have reserved stop locations, where non-PT buses cannot stop. In many cases PT-bus stops are reserved for buses of specific operators. And I think (to be verified) that Flixbus is a long-distance PT-bus network, that does not stop at PT-bus stops, but in other locations, often shared with non-PT buses. I am sure when we look closer at different countries we detect all kinds of hybrids. One, which I know first hand, is an on-demand night-bus system (in Padova, Italy) <http://www.padovanet.it/notizia/20190318/night-bus-nuovo-servizio-di-autobus-notturno-chiamata> that is operated by the company that runs the city's scheduled day-time PT-bus lines. This night-time on-demand service has no fixed routes but allows pick-up/set-down of passengers only at the stop locations of the scheduled service. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 01:34, Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 23:56, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I am honestly confused by the discussions about types and features of >> buses. >> > > Join the club. :) > > Are these relevant in the mapping context? >> > > Yes. That's how this whole thread started. Somebody wanting to map > places where > coaches stop to let people on and off. Which are sometimes for coaches > alone but > some may be shared with buses. > > >> Are there any road regulations referring specifically to coaches? >> > > I have no idea. It would be a long search to find out, and if you found > nothing you > still couldn't be sure you hadn't missed something. > > Because there are for buses. Not just buses in public service, but buses >> intended as a kind of vehicle (in all places I know, this includes coaches >> and small buses with more than 9 seats). >> > > Even though there may be no generic legislation there may be specific > signage. Access > for buses only would (I surmise) exclude coaches because the buses are > permitted in order > to allow passengers to board/alight along that bit of highway whereas > coaches would be > using it merely as a short-cut from A to B. Pedestrianized inner cities > areas may allow > buses along some roads that all other traffic is excluded from (except for > delivery vehicles > outside shopping hours). I have seen video of a rising bollard that > dropped > to allow a bus through and then rose to block the car following the bus: > presumably a coach > would also be blocked because it wouldn't broadcast a valid ID. See > https://youtu.be/4wT7zM8XgXQ?t=189 > > We do need to keep coaches and buses separate. And realize that coaches > (whether chartered, > for holidays or for day trips) are not the same thing as tourist/tour > buses (which are probably in yet > another category for stops and road access). > > Oh, and please forget that motorbus ever existed. Motorcycle is in common > use (more > usually motorbike) to distinguish it from an ordinary bicycle. Motorcar > is quaint and > old-fashioned and people would wonder why you said motorcar rather than > just car > but would know what you meant. Motorbus is so antiquated that people > would wonder > what you were talking about and ask if you meant a bus. > > -- > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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