On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 5:42 PM Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 at 21:25, Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.ke...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> But this doesn't really address the problem. We can't fix State Parks >> by making them 'boundary=national_park admin_level=4' because they >> don't function as 'national park' in the IUCN deffinition of the term. >> Instead, the typical State Park is a hybrid of nature_reserve and >> recreation_ground and park and maybe a few other things. Requiring >> that those land uses be mapped separately leaves no whole to which the >> name and boundary can be assigned, but the whole doesn't really have >> anything binding it together other than a protection status, a >> coterminous set of boundaries and a name. > > Doesn't seem to fit national parks in the UK either. See Pembrokeshire Coast > National > Park: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/165598 > > It is entirely within, and occupies a large part of, the county of > Pembrokeshire. It is not > administered by the UK Government, the Welsh Assembly or Pembrokeshire County > Council but by the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park Authority. See > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pembrokeshire_Coast_National_Park > > The PCNPA owns less than 2% of the national park, the rest of it is privately > owned. It contains > 13 Special Areas of Conservation, 5 Special Protection Areas, 1 Marine > Conservation Zone, > 7 National Nature Reserves, 60 Sites of Special Scientific Interest and 265 > Scheduled > Ancient Monuments, all of which come under one or another protection scheme > and are > administered by different organizations. See > https://www.pembrokeshirecoast.wales/default.asp?PID=503 There are also > woodlands > administered/protected by various different organizations. > > It also contains hamlets, villages, town and cities. As well as everything > else you might expect > to find in an area with a resident population of around 22,500 such as golf > courses, recreational > parks, etc. > > Planning permission within the park is controlled by the PCNPA rather than > the County Council. > > It's all kind of complicated.
The Adirondack and Catskill Parks in New York are nearly a precise parallel, including the complication that they are not chartered by the Federal government. They're entirely within, and a creature of, the State of New York. (The Adirondack Park spans twelve counties - at 24,000 km², it's the size of some European countries. The Catskill Park is perhaps a sixth its size). They are read into the New York State Constitution, so the unusual cooperative protection that they enjoy is actually stronger than that of any of our National Parks (which can, in theory, be wiped out by a simple act of Congress, rather than a constitutional amendment). The land ownership is roughly 50-50 public/private. Many of the private landowners are logging companies, who are restricted to sustainable harvest techniques and severely restricted against repurposing the land. (Many also have public access easements in place so that some areas not being actively logged are open to recreational users.) The local government system is complicated, but in the Adirondacks, suffice it to say that the Adirondack Park Agency (a private-public partnership between the local communities and the NY State Department of Environmental Conservation) is the most powerful among the local entities. Certainly, listings for property are more likely to say whether they're inside or outside the park than what township or county they're in, because that difference is more significant to the landowner. For the Adirondack Park alone, there are about forty Wilderness Areas (comprising about 4800 km²), a somewhat greater number of Wild Forest [a classification just below Wilderness] (about 5400 km²), about 5900 km² of Resource Management areas (in private hands, and mostly devoted to logging), about 4000 km² devoted to Rural Use (mostly agriculture). About 50 km² are even zoned as Industrial Use - mostly mining; the park produces titanium, garnet and wollastonite. About 1600 km² are devoted to human habitation, divided into about 60% low-intensity (< 75 buildings/km²), 30% medium-intensity (75-200 buildings/km²), and 10% high-intensity (where there is no fixed limit and most uses are permitted, although special hearings are needed for subdivisions exceeding 100 lots, expansion into wetlands, airport construction, and structures over 12 m above average terrain). It contains also Primitive, HIstoric, Canoe, and Intensive Use areas. There are about 130,000 permanent inhabitants, and the population expands to about 320,000 seasonally, with nearly 10 million annual visitors. There are two universities (Paul Smith's College and State University of New York Environmental Science and Forestry), plus North Country Community College. (There are a handful more just outside its boundaries). SUNY-ESF maintains multiple research stations and demonstration forests. Some of the 'private' land is actually in the hands of NGO's, but this situation is commoner in the Catskills, where the Nature Conservancy, the Open Space Institute, the Catskill Center, the Appalachian Mountain Club, the YMCA, and numerous other entities all have substantial holdings. Even some of the private landowners welcome visitors - I've hiked (with advance permission, which is ordinarily granted outside certain specific seasons) on one of Jay Gould's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Gould) estates several times. There are no sizable cities in the park, but dozens of towns and villages of a few thousand inhabitants each. I could get the numbers for the Catskills, but this message is already too long. Planning permission in the Adirondack Park is controlled by the Adirondack Park Agency, not the zoning boards of the individual townships or counties. Catskill Park zoning is complicated because of the towering presence of the New York City watershed - so I'm not discussing it, but it's differently restricted, with New York City having a say in it despite the fact that none of the park is within city limits. You're right that it's 'kind of complicated.' I tagged the things 'boundary=national_park' and I'm not apologizing. _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
