On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > 2016-07-19 22:01 GMT+02:00 Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>: > >> The High Peaks Wilderness is a lot more like a public park than it is >> like your driveway. Should it be access=private because on the way in, you >> have to fill out a form and leave it in the letterbox at a place like >> this >> <https://fortysixupsanddowns.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/roaring-brook-trail-register.jpg>? >> Does that change fundamentally if you have to download a form like this >> <http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/regions_pdf/newaccessprmt.pdf> from a >> website, fill it out, print it, and have one copy on your car's dashboard >> and one in your person? >> > > > Actually, in these two cases (self issued permit), I wouldn't even use the > word "permit", its more a kind of notification system, because there's no > way someone would/could reject your application, right? Still I agree it > does make sense to add some tag(s) for this kind of procedure. > > In the other case you wrote about, where the operator limits accessibility > to reduce the impact by visitors on the nature, the word "permit" seems to > fit better. > > In all cases, I think it matters what you have to do / who you have to be > in order to comply with the formalities. Is it something everybody can do, > or does it require a special status (e.g. resident, citizenship) or > function (police man, ranger, military, public administration, homeland > security, fire department, etc.). > In the case of New York's permit-only areas (both NYS and NYC), it appears that the only condition is that you're over 18. (Kids can travel on the permit of an accompanying adult.) I run into a lot of Canadians in the Adirondacks, and a lot of new Korean immigrants in the Catskills. (New York City has some very active Korean hiking clubs.) The language on the permits warns that they can be revoked for flagrant or repeated violations. I haven't heard of this happening very often. Then again, the permit holders seem to be a fairly well-behaved lot. The revocation wouldn't really keep someone from registering again, but would be another reason to throw the book at them if they reoffend. I have heard of people who were permanently banned from the DEC lands after being convicted for a raft of offenses related to squatting. They'd built a hunting camp on state land, and the permanent ban applies to those of them who didn't go to prison. The ones who fired on the party of rangers and troopers who came to evict them will be in prison for a very long time. One purpose of the permit system is to have the infrastructure in place in case they need to begin limiting access, and to have a mailing list that can be used to broadcast regulatory changes. The only things that I've heard about that way have been the closures of parks or trails for wildfires, hurricanes and avalanches. They keep making noises about instituting a quota system for the High Peaks and possibly the West Canada Lakes, but nothing ever seems to come of it. In a lot of the other permit-only parks in the US, the procedures are fundamentally the same except that in addition to registering, you have to reserve a date on the web site, and sometimes pay a nominal fee (which barely covers the cost of administering the permit system). It's still open to all comers, there just has to be a slot available on your date of travel. For some immensely popular trips (the John Muir Trail through Yosemite, rafting on the Grand Canyon) there's a lottery system in place, because some people will be turned away in any given year. For most other areas, it's just "plan in advance and coordinate your dates". Most of the permit systems require a given date of arrival and a given first night's campsite. Given the vagaries of backcountry travel, they are flexible about subsequent campsites and exit dates. I've finished trips a day early or a day late and made unplanned detours without any particular hassle, even when my permit was checked.
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