On 2015-08-14 13:50, Ruben Maes wrote :
> On 14 August 2015, Papou wrote on the wiki[1]:
>
>> There were discussions related to this in other Tagging@ threads without
>> follow-up before the vote.
>> My disregarded remarks were:
>> * to introduce the tag precisely as:
>> healthcare=blood_donation is an attribute tag that indicates that the
>> object tag is a place where one can donate blood ... (building, room, tent,
>> parking place where a vehicle comes ...)
> As is shop=*. They are both not purely main objects, but also not purely
> attributes. You go to a building because the shop you want to visit is in it;
> you go to a building because you want to go to the blood collection.
>
> If the building is not primarily the shop, you tag the building with
> building=* and place a node inside with just the shop tags. Similarly for
> healthcare=blood_donation.
>
> This is a bit philosophical.
No, it's logical and topological (and, well, philosophy is thinking
rationally).
A map must be made of well-known visible objects ("on the ground" as
they say) to which attributes apply.
Buildings, tents, ground places, etc. are objects that can have donation
or other attributes.
A shop and blood_donation are not objects but attributes showing object
activities.
There must always be one and only one object per map element.
If one tags donation only, it will be unknown if it's a building, a
tent, a parking place etc.
I have unsuccessfully tried to point out the anomaly of a very common
practice to represent buildings by nodes that do not indicate that they
are buildings. They may be or will be inside a building and leave a
problem for those who are drawing buildings later.
Many wiki articles give a fuzzy explanation, or worse definition, of
what is in fact what I say.
That's what I suggest you to avoid.
I just can't figure blood donation as half an object and half an attribute.
>> * also applying to healthcare=any (to be modified): the tag can be put on an
>> area object (typically building), but, preferably IMHO, unless the whole
>> area is devoted to donation, a node inside an area. In that case, having an
>> object tag such as a room in the node is required (you said you are happy
>> without)
> I did not previously understand your call for a 'room' tag. Indeed I am happy
> without a room tag if the building is not indoor mapped. If indoor mapping
> ever catches on, the outlines of rooms where blood donation takes place can
> be tagged with room=yes and healthcare=blood_donation.
For one thing, saying that it is a room (or some other place) is saying
that it's not the whole building.
To refer to a room, especially by node, it's not more necessary to have
every room tagged than to have every road tagged when you want to add
just one.
>> * So that they were tagged uniformly, I suggested an example for the tagging
>> of several hundred Red Cross periodic donation spots, typically a node:
>> area:
>> building=school
>> contact:phone=* (and other tags related to the school)
>> ...
>> node inside area:
>> room=yes
>> ref=12
>> healthcare=blood_donation
>> contact:phone (and other tags related to blood donation such as:
>> contact:email=*
>> website=*
>> open_hours=Tu 17:00-19:30 "days on schedule (see website)"
> opening_hours=Tu 17:00-19:30 "days on schedule (see website)" seems far from
> perfect. Semantically, IMO, it is implied that the facility is open every
> Tuesday, with a comment for the user. Perhaps the opening_hours syntax could
> be amended.
"on schedule" is a natural extension I suggested to "on appointment",
which, as a comment, seems to be presented (by examples) as restrictions
to the tagged times. You may indeed suggest that page to be less fuzzy
(less by examples to be grasped as their comment said).
Someone stated that the comments need no more explanations.
> Another problem is that the mobile collections don't always occur on the same
> day of the week. For example, in Heist, Belgium, The upcoming mobile
> collections are We 19 August, Tu 25 August, Tu 10 November and We 18 November.
The solution to that is extremely simple: you don't tag days or times.
What I wrote is a possible example, not a suggestion for Heist.
> I am not convinced that the mobile blood donations can be adequately mapped
> by this. They would at least need an additional tag. Also, they are points
> that are fixed in space, but not in time. OpenStreetMap normally requires
> both I think.
You may add a 'mobile' tag for those who don't understand, 'cose the Red
Cross site do not use that word.
In what way do you think that open_hours="on schedule (see website) or,
better in that case,
*opening_hours*:url
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:url>=http://www.donneurdesang.be are
"fixed in time" or need to be and are errors?
OK for fixed in space as it has already be said about mapping clouds and
horses ;-)
> However, I do like the idea of mapping them. Maybe we can ultimately get our
> Red Crosses to use OSM maps on their sites.
Unfortunately, I know the Belgian site developer personally and his
close friend is a relative, and neither did reply when I first showed
them their donation sites on a Google map I made before OSM and later on
an OSM map overlaid with POIs (the latter needing just a very simple
text file to maintain
<http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/OpenLayers_Vector_fast.html?zoom=12&lat=50.53752&lon=5.64134&layers=BTTFFFFFFFFFFT>)
(Please don't tell me that the popup links are wrong, they are outdated).
>> This last tag was discussed on the Tagging list especially for you to
>> indicate that the donations always take place on Tuesdays at the shown hours
>> and that the exact days have to be found at the given website URL.
>>
>> As a volunteer ex-cooperator of blood donation, I thank you for this.
> Thank you for elaborating on your point of view. I now better understand what
> you meant.
You welcome.
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Blood_donation_2#papou-attribute-mobile
>
Cheers
André.
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