Hi there. It looks like an old and complex issue: https://corp.unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2019-January/007563.html
I had a quick look at the thread and still don't understand what should be the correct character to use :-) If I understand correctly, there is no such thing as quotation mark character in ancient Greek (*) , so there should be no problem confusing an elision marker with an end of quote mark anyway. (*) There can be some sort of quotation mark such as here, in the margin of a codex vaticanus page, on the middle part of the left column (luke 3 citing the book of Isaiah) https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1209/1313 On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 at 09:08, David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: > > Indeed, getting all the upstream Greek NT sources fixed would be ideal, but > this "category mistake" has become so entrenched since before the advent of > computers, I suspect we'd have an uphill struggle. > > It's all the more frustrating when one realizes that there are only 21 > distinct words in a Greek NT where this inappropriate Unicode character was > used! That these fairly short words are quite common is what accounts for the > overall total of 1219. > > That figure was calculated after I used BabelPad Tools to perform a Word > Frequency analysis both before and after replacing each U+2019 by U+0315 as > part of my experiment. > > To illustrate this, I have attached the resulting diff file. > > NB. Because U+2019 is not a "word character", it's not present in the before > analysis. > > Refer also to the transcript of the second part of my AI chat with Leo, as > per my email sent late last night. > > How can we persuade the wider community of NT Scholarship and Textual > Criticism to fix this long-standing category mistake? > > Best regards, > > David > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > On Sunday, March 16th, 2025 at 12:26 AM, Greg Hellings > <greg.helli...@gmail.com> wrote: > > It sounds like the text is using the wrong character. Would it not be better > to go back to the source text and fix it there? That would benefit everyone > who consumes that text, and not just people looking at the appearance of the > text through a Sword client with sufficiently up-to-date filters. > > Why is the text using an apostrophe character in the first place, rather than > the appropriate accent character? > > --Greg > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2025 at 1:46 PM David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: >> >> Further to my message sent to the modules team, I have suggestion for SWORD >> developers. >> >> Modify how GlobalOptionFilter=UTF8GreekAccents works with respect to U+2019. >> >> Currently the filter doesn't care how this codepoint is being used >> semantically. >> >> We could make a practical change as follows: >> >> Rule: Do not hide U+2019 if the preceding character is not a Greek letter. >> >> However, that would not be sufficient to cover all the cases in the >> StatResGNT module currently in CrossWire Beta. >> >> Here's one that's better: >> >> Rule: Do not hide U+2019 if the preceding character is not a word character. >> >> With this in operation, the source text would not need to be changed in >> those places where the RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK is immediately after a >> punctuation mark. >> >> Then what about the remaining places where it is immediately after a Greek >> letter? >> >> A simple kludge for an improved source text would be to insert a zero width >> space or a zero width non joiner. Doing so would protect the quotation mark >> from being treated contrarily as a Greek diacritic when its purpose is >> simply to close a quotation. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> On Saturday, March 15th, 2025 at 6:02 PM, David Haslam >> <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thinking about the teleological conflict caused by using U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE >> QUOTATION MARK as a Greek Diacritic, >> I wish to suggest that in modules where this was the case, that we might >> replace all U+2019 by U+0315 COMBINING COMMA ABOVE RIGHT. >> >> This displays very similarly, viz >> >> U+2019 παρ’ >> U+0315 παρ̕ >> >> NB. The latter was not already used anywhere in the TischMorph module. >> >> The advantage would be that if we did this to all the Ancient Greek modules >> and to any other module that makes the same contrary use of U+2019, >> then eventually, we might update the SWORD engine such that it no longer >> hides it with GlobalOptionFilter=UTF8GreekAccents. >> >> This would free up U+2019 for it's proper use as a RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION >> MARK to end speech begun with U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. >> We have just encountered this use in Beta module StatResGNT which contains >> sections of text marked with both DOUBLE and SINGLE QUOTATION marks. >> >> I propose therefore that we perform an experiment, by implementing my >> suggestion first in module TischMorph, last updated 2012-01-09. >> This has 1218 instances of U+2019 and in each case, it's used contrarily as >> a Greek Diacritic. >> >> Here's a counted list of the Greek letters that are followed by a U+2019. >> >> 0031 δ’ >> 0109 θ’ >> 0232 τ’ >> 0287 π’ >> 0221 λ’ >> 0135 φ’ >> 0059 ρ’ >> 0144 ι’ >> >> >> This is how they would look if the proposed replacements were made: >> >> 0031 δ̕ >> 0109 θ̕ >> 0232 τ̕ >> 0287 π̕ >> 0221 λ̕ >> 0135 φ̕ >> 0059 ρ̕ >> 0144 ι̕ >> >> >> NB. The upstream source for this module is no longer found at >> http://morphgnt.org/ >> The URL now just displays a 404 message saying "There isn't a GitHub Pages >> site here." >> If we can no longer find where it may have moved, we might have to use a >> "round trip" of mod2imp and imp2vs to rebuild the module with my suggested >> change. >> >> If my suggestion has any merit, we should also first discuss it with NT >> scholars such as our friends at STEP Bible and their friends at Tyndale >> House. >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
