Y'all:
Thank you all for your interactions. I honestly have been trying to
help, not just waste everybody's time. But I am not a C++ programmer. I
know enough Python to be dangerous. I can do some occasional maintenance
on C. All the languages I once knew are obsolete or specific to
Microsoft, whom I finally just had to divorce with extreme disgust. I am
still learning, but slowly.
Thus, I hope I can be extended some charity here as a "weaker brother"
with respect to the above and below remarks.
Documentation is a weak point in Linux generally, and has been a problem
for me and others in spades with Crosswire related stuff. One solution
for some of the versions issue would be to:
1. Document somewhere what are the latest versions and how to find out
one's current version.
2. Programs should have an option to check for a newer version each time
they are started and report new versions to the user.
2. For main distros, even though it may not be possible to get something
in the official repository, provide a package somewhere to download. For
example, for Debian, a *.deb.
3. Provide scripts that will work and allow one to compile the latest
version without requiring the user to know a lot. Even a list of
commands that can be copied and pasted one by one would be better than
nothing.
The reference to [NASB] ... was for Karl.
How do I find out the version of Sword from the command line without
using osis2mod?
And, I thought Diatheke came with Sword? When Sword was updated awhile
back was it not updated also?
Re: your using:
sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp
You can do that. I can't. I do not know C++. You guys are all way above
me technically. When something goes wrong, I generally have no idea how
to fix it.
Sorry for the trouble. Perhaps some of my suggestions above will make
things easier for all of us. For example, if my Diatheke is obsolete, I
have no way of knowing and still do not know if it is obsolete or not.
Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
---------------------
Great News!
God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
On 5/8/20 1:19 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
So, a few things here.
On 5/8/20 9:57 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
Troy, Karl:
(Karl:
[NASB]
Heading=On)
I have no idea what you are showing here. This looks like a .conf
setting. Xiphos may pay attention to Heading=On, but this doesn't mean
anything to SWORD.
I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable
version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the
version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a
buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled
testing, but it is not as reliable.)
I have mentioned my versions before. Others can comment on their
current status:
Diatheke: 4.7
Xiphos: 4.1.0
Sword (from osis2mod): 3431 (This should be current as I compiled for
the new version when it came out earlier.)
So, you are not reporting the version of SWORD you are using if you are
getting that information from osis2mod. osis2mod shows the last edited
revision of the osis2mod utility. That tools hasn't been updated since
2016, so it will report that revision. SWORD is currently at 3725
I understand that there is a new version of Xiphos, but Xiphos is not
the only program not showing Psalm titles. (I hope to see a Debian
package for Xiphos soon, if not when I get a chance, I can try to
compile, but that always has difficulties.)
I repeat here the results from Diatheke:
(I was given to understand that this is the gold standard for seeing
if the problem is in the module or Sword vs. front-ends.)
No. diatheke is certainly not the gold standard for seeing anything.
Diatheke has bugs of its own. I personally use
sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp to check all info about what SWORD
output from a module entry to a frontend for a particular format.
Diatheke is not a bad tool to use, but it is certainly not considered
any kind of standard. I have no idea why it is, for example, showing
headings AFTER verse 1. This is certainly a bug and has likely been
fixed since the version you are using.
Having said that, it works for me:
[scribe@localhost diatheke]$ ./diatheke -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1
For the choir director; for flute accompaniment. A Psalm of David.
Psalms 5:1:
Give ear to my words, O LORD, Consider my groaning.
(NASB)
Karl has said that he can see the NASB Psalm titles fine in his instance
of Xiphos.
My guess is that the NASB uses the latest version of osis2mod and
SWORD-supported markup and what you have on your system does not support
entirely all of this markup.
I am happy to hear of problems, but I am not sure what we can do to fix
things if you are reporting problems with old version which we can't
reproduce in the latest versions.
I am sad we have old versions out there in distributions.
Troy
$ diatheke -b ESV2011 -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1: Give ear to my words, O Lord;
consider my groaning.
To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David.
Psalms 5:2: Give attention to the sound of my cry,
my King and my God,
for to you do I pray.
(ESV2011)
$ diatheke -b KJV -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1: Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.
Psalms 5:2: Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for
unto thee will I pray.
(KJV)
$ diatheke -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1:
Give ear to my words, O LORD, Consider my groaning.
Psalms 5:2:
Heed the sound of my cry for help, my King and my God, For to You I pray.
(NASB)
And I repeat here the *differences* in how front ends handle things:
BibleDesktop displays the canonical title in a different color than
the human title. This does not mean that I accuse any front-ends per-se.
BibleTime displays both the human and canonical the same.
Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB
Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
---------------------
Great News!
God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
On 5/8/20 12:30 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
Good morning!
So, lots of conversation. I've read it all and can't determine if there
is still a problem to be fixed.
First, it sounds like Tom is using an old version of software. Please
be sure you are using the latest version of software before pursuing
problems. It sounds like Karl is saying that the latest version of
Xiphos works. Is this correct?
SWORD has always attempted to leave canonical titles in the display,
even if headings are turned off. We may have had bugs over the years
causing this to not worked, but I hope it hasn't been so often as to
make anyone think this is how SWORD has "always" worked. I confirm that
asking for Psalm 5.1 without headings turned on still returns the
canonical title (and correctly strips out the non-canonical title)
there.
"canonical" in OSIS for Bibles does indeed mean "what was originally in
the Bible." It does not not mean "was was originally in the NASB." It
is meant as a utility to differentiate editorial material from the
original work (=Bible; not NASB). OSIS canonical when encoding a Bible
mean what we all think canonical means. It is a statement about what
this edition claims is there in the original "Bible", however that
edition defines the term "Bible".
SWORD /should/ mark all canonical titles appropriately so they can be
rendered differently, if that is the desire. Checking the NASB, they
are rendered appropriately in an element with:
class="title psalm canonical"
So, is there any issue we need to address?
Troy
On 5/8/20 8:42 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
My reference to verse numbers was only to show that others also
considered the Psalm titles to be canonical.
Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
---------------------
On 5/8/20 11:01 AM, David Haslam wrote:
The original Hebrew text had no “verse numbers”.
It’s anachronistic to assert that it did.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible?wprov=sfti1>
Modern printed editions of the MT have verse numbers “retrofitted”
simply for ease of use.
The Wikipedia article on Psalms is also instructive.
How Psalms are numbered and versified is quite a complex matter.
It’s just one of the factors we have to take account of under
Alternative Versification.
David
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:49, Tom Sullivan <i...@beforgiven.info
<mailto:i...@beforgiven.info>> wrote:
Y'all:
My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating
biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.
Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:
Appendix B.2.10 titles
The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special
rendering of particular titles, as well as
searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the
type
of note that appears in the text. Note that
the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as
shown, all
others must use the "x-" extension
mechanism.
If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not
covered by these values, please use the OSIS
attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your
value
for this attribute.
.
.
psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the
English text are actually numbered
as verses in the Hebrew text.
David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as
published,
OR
2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB
publishers
saw it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make
this
decision, we are simply electronically duplicating the paper
publication.
IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.
Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.
Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
---------------------
On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is
actually not a theological matter.
It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as
if it was.
It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published
work it
represents in digital format.
So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible
module.
Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only
because the marked text was not in the original work.
Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”
I will leave you to ponder....
David
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste <k...@kleinpaste.org
<mailto:k...@kleinpaste.org>> wrote:
On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a
difference
in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine
to wrap
such titles in a suitable <span></span> so that a CSS control can
put it
to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.
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