Thanks Hannes I'll give that a read. Im beginning to feel that like stereo
it's probably best to reference on a wide range of headphones, from the
super accurate phase coherant, to the apple earbuds 80% will listen on as a
reference.

On Tuesday, 23 June 2020, Hannes Helmholz <hannes.helmh...@chalmers.se>
wrote:

> I found this paper quite a while ago [1]. I suppose it tries to answer
> exactly the question you have.
>
> However, I find it difficult to judge whether the employed way of
> simulating different sets of headphones via impulse responses is really
> "transparent" there.
> Even if done to the best of technical ability, I doubt that the
> simulation can provide an accurate representation of another headphones'
> ear signals in the subjects ears (also since HRTFs an HRIRs of a dummy
> head were used). On a perceptual level however, they state that the
> simulation works okay by referencing former studies.
>
> As other people also mentioned, occlusion (according to open / closed
> back headphones / earbuds) has a big influence on perceived attributes
> of binaural reproduction. This is one point which I think is very
> difficult or even impossible to simulate without actually employing the
> individual headsets (I imagine it requires extensive technical effort
> and even more individual tuning for each subject).
>
> However, learning about the influence of different (low cost) headphone
> magnitude spectra is of course valuable. :)
>
> [1] P. Gutierrez-Parera and J. J. Lopez, “Influence of the quality of
> Consumer Headphones in the Perception of Spatial Audio,” Appl. Sci.,
> vol. 6, no. 5, pp. 1–18, 2016, doi: 10.3390/app6040117.
> https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/6/4/117/pdf
>
> Best,
> /Hannes
>
> On 2020-06-23 22:23, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> > "The argument that open headphones would add a second 'pinna response'
> > to a binaural signal doesn't hold. The whole point of the pinnae is
> > that the response depends on direction, and with headphones that
> > is not the case. "
> >
> > Well except the headphones do have a direction if they are outside your
> > Pinnae - in the case of my HD6000s the driver is about 2 cm outside my
> > pinnae in the middle of my ear so they would have whatever the HRTF is
> for
> > being close to / next to your ear, in the same way, I guess a mosquito
> has
> > when it flies close to your ear can be localised as it flies past the
> same
> > position, admittedly that is a moving object unlike headphones ... it
> would
> > interesting to see if there are any papers/listening tests which have
> > tested lovcalisation with HRTFs and different types of headphones - are
> > there any ?
> >
> > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 09:26, Fons Adriaensen <f...@linuxaudio.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:12:38PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> >>
> >>> I normally do installation work but lockdown has steered me towards
> >> working
> >>> on binaural work that can be streamed. Obviously, with speakers, I
> have a
> >>> calibrated system, room treatment etc
> >>
> >>> I have a pair of Sennheiser HD600s
> >>> that I use but it occurs to me that these kinds of over-ear headphones
> >> may
> >>> not be best suited for binaural work as there may be some pinna
> filtering
> >>> seeing as the driver is as large as my pinna, so I was thinking earbuds
> >>> might be more suitable as they bypass the pinna altogether and you are
> >> just
> >>> left with the HRTFs
> >>
> >> In may experience binaural works best with open headphones. Earbuds have
> >> a very strong occlusion effect, and there is experimental evidence that
> >> this prevents externalisation.
> >>
> >> Occlusion means that the acoustic impedance as seen by the ear is
> changed
> >> by being in a closed volume. It's why you hear your own voice much
> stronger
> >> when you close the ear canal.
> >>
> >> It is possible to remove occlusion even with closed headphones, but this
> >> requires active systems. Noise cancellation using feedback from within
> >> the headphone will do this to some degree as a side effect. Feedforward
> >> systems don't. This is an area of active research (in which I'm
> involved).
> >>
> >> That said, there's a lot of difference in binaural performance even
> >> among high quality open headphones. One factor that seems to have an
> >> influence is how well the phase/delay response is matched between the
> >> two sides. For some headphones this is intentionally 'randomised',
> >> some people seem to prefer that for normal (non-binaural) listening.
> >> It's quite simple to test: listen to a mono signal. If the responses
> >> are well matched you should get a solid image dead center. If not,
> >> even a mono signal will be somewhat 'diffuse'. This is called the
> >> 'Tonmeister test' in some circles :-)
> >>
> >> The argument that open headphones would add a second 'pinna response'
> >> to a binaural signal doesn't hold. The whole point of the pinnae is
> >> that the response depends on direction, and with headphones that
> >> is not the case. What remains is a fixed effect that can be removed
> >> by normal equalisation or as part of the design.
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >>
> >> --
> >> FA
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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> >> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

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