In fairness, these things take time- I don't think many people working in film sound will have grounding in principles of interaural cross correlation (IACC), or precedence effects, or cocktail party effects, or image focus, apparent source width, spaciousness and so on. Without these, any display system (5.1, 7.1, atmos, 22.2, ambisonics etc) is just a bunch of speakers. So, fair's fair - at least, if a given system has the potential to carry the subtle information, they have a chance - and, sooner or later, someone will spot the potential to use the system well. But if that potential isn't there...
This is all redolent of Quadraphonics, which, although conceptually misbegotten, could actually have carried a great deal more spatial information than it ever got chance to. alright, it couldn't depict phantom imagery to the sides (cones of confusion and all that), but it could have carried more spaciousness. Of course, 5.1 is only really Quad+dialogue channel. and atmos is just a bit of a step beyond. But evolution is a slow process. maybe we should sponsor some kind of competition, to see how much spatiallity can be got into (and out of) Dolby atmos. Actually, I quite like that - working against the constraints of an inadequate system - well, it's a bit like racing Landrover Defenders; bonkers but quite fun. I'll bet £5 right now (and I'm a Yorkshireman, so we don't do that kind of thing lightly) That, if I had my hands on the gear to encode to Dolby Atmos, then I could make it - not accurate' but certainly not coming out of the nearest speaker - wherever you're sitting - I bet I could make it somewhat spacious. How do we set up this wager? Glen Dickens - you on this list? cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 ________________________________________ From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar [augustineleu...@gmail.com] Sent: 05 February 2016 19:26 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Dialogue in center channel,,, not always It depends on the mix engineer more than the potential of the system. They generally don't have a clue how to mix in surround even in high end post houses. On Friday, 5 February 2016, Trond Lossius <trond.loss...@bek.no> wrote: > For what it’s worth I recently attended a Dolby Atmos screening of the > most recent Star Wars movie. I ended up in the frontmost left seat, and I > have to say that I was surprised that next to all of the sound of the > screening for me appeared to come from one and one only speaker just off > the screen to the left. I didn’t expect to get the same experience as if > seated in the middle, but still t thought that Dolby Atmos mixing and > reproduction would be much more resilient to off-centre listening. > > But then again, I’m generally pretty underwhelmed with how the Doly Atmos > format is being used in most blockbuster Hollywood productions. Apart from > a few swishes here and there as a mere audible spectacle, there seem to be > a lack of understanding and imagination with respect to how spatial sound > can help invite a deeper sense of immersion in the places where the story > unfolds. > > Cheers, > Trond > > > > On 05 Feb 2016, at 15:43, jim moses <jmo...@brown.edu <javascript:;>> > wrote: > > > > I the state the obvious - something I imagine everyone on this list > > understands.. > > > > The main reason to keep dialogue in the center channel is that panned > > phantom images are unstable for most of the audience in a theater. > Panning > > to a center speaker fixes the location for everyone, instead of moving to > > the speaker you are sitting closest to. > > > > jm > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:29 AM, <florian.came...@orf.at <javascript:;>> > wrote: > > > >> Yes, in Gravity this is easily possible in the opening shot: it's a > super > >> long > >> wide shot where Clooney is off picture in the beginning. There is plenty > >> of tome to absorb the scene and the > >> position of everything. This is an obvious opportunity to pan dialogue > as > >> it is really underlining the > >> dramaturgical intent. And this always is the criteria. > >> If the picture cuts are too fast (and this limit is reached soon), > >> following the > >> perspective panning-wise exaggerates the edits, makes them obvious > >> and potentially destroys the seamless flow of the narration. That's the > >> main reason > >> for keeping the dialogue in the center. If the shots are long enough, > >> if there are off-voices, if there is movement or something similar in a > >> dramaturgical sense, > >> then panning the dialogue to the position on (or off) screen may enhance > >> the sense of space > >> and the story. More than 90% of all dialogue is in the center, though. > But > >> yes, sometimes > >> it is an improvement. And yes, in animation the voices are super-clean > as > >> they are recorded > >> in a studio - and thus they can be panned easily if wanted. With > location > >> sound, there may be considerable background sound > >> behind the voices - and if such a signal is panned, the (mono-) > background > >> jumps around as well. Very noticable > >> and very disturbing. Location audio is very much used these days by many > >> directors (Tarantino, e.g.). > >> Robert Altman was famous for insisting on 100% location dialogue. This > >> makes panning dialogue almost impossible, > >> even if it would enhance the story. > >> > >> Best, Florian > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> Von: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>]" im > Auftrag von > >> "Courville, Daniel [courville.dan...@uqam.ca <javascript:;>] > >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 04. Februar 2016 18:15 > >> An: sursound@music.vt.edu <javascript:;> > >> Betreff: Re: [Sursound] Dialogue in center channel,,, not always > >> > >>>>> And which director takes care about stereo compatible picture > editing? > >>> > >>> Alfonso Cuaron is possibly one such director. Both Children of Men and > >>> Gravity often panned the dialogue to match the position of the actor on > >>> screen. It's very noticeable right at the start of Gravity; first you > hear > >>> George Clooney's voice coming from far right and as the shot zooms in > and > >>> you start to see him appear on the far right of the screen, his > dialogue > >>> moves across to match. > >> > >> Every Pixar animation movies have panned dialogues. > >> > >> Since the voices are recorded in individual booth, they start audio > >> post-production with separate tracks for every voices, making panning > >> easier and more effective, although making the mix more time consuming. > >> > >> - Daniel > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu <javascript:;> > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu <javascript:;> > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Jim Moses > > Technical Director/Lecturer > > Brown University Music Department and M.E.M.E. (Multimedia and Electronic > > Music Experiments) > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160205/3c06e6b7/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu <javascript:;> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu <javascript:;> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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