Not arguing with the figures, just stating empirical findings. 

Will see if I can find details of the two machines at some point. Ditched one 
manufacturer because of poor quality control, so may just have been unlucky.

John
Sent from my iPad

> On 5 Nov 2013, at 22:41, Fons Adriaensen <f...@linuxaudio.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 10:20:35PM +0000, John Leonard wrote:
>> 
>> Hmm, not what I've found: I mean, really not what I've found.
> 
> No point in discussing basic physics, a self noise of 19 dB(A)
> and a sensitivity of 7 mv/Pa amount to -116 dBm(A) at the
> input of the preamp. Unless I botched up the the calculations:
> 
> 7 mV = -43.1 dBV = -40.9 dBm 
> 1 Pa = 94 dB SPL
> 
> 19 - 40.9 - 94 = -115.9
> 
>> Sorry to disagree, but I've tried a number of systems and have
>> found that the low-cost recorders that I've used, un-modded, have
>> had unacceptable noise levels when cranked up.
> 
> And what EIN levels do the specs of these recorders state ?
> 
> There may be a different issue at work here. EIN is normally 
> measured at maximum gain. A well-designed preamp should have
> more or less constant EIN for the upper 25..30 dB of the gain
> range, but many don't.
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> -- 
> FA
> 
> 
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