I agree the number 3s are the most motivated. For example I think mediatek is doing a massive come from behind win vs Broadcom and Qualcomm in the wifi ap market
On Wed, May 1, 2024, 12:26 PM Eugene Y Chang <eugene.ch...@ieee.org> wrote: > Pick up the glove? > I can be part of a team. I am not as close as to the equipment as I used > to be. > I need help assembling a demo configuration that can engage the > subscribers. > Building a local team for this has been very slow going. > > I like helping a market #3 or #4 disrupt an incumbent. In most cases I > have seen, the #2 already has a game plan for competing with #1. A distant > #3 is usually the most hungry. > > Gene. > ---------------------------------------------- > Eugene Chang > IEEE Life Senior Member > IEEE Communications Society & Signal Processing Society, > Hawaii Chapter Chair > IEEE Life Member Affinity Group Hawaii Chair > IEEE Entrepreneurship, Mentor > eugene.ch...@ieee.org > m 781-799-0233 (in Honolulu) > > > > On Apr 30, 2024, at 9:27 PM, Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.bor...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Basically, Eugene, the situation you are describing is calling for a > competitor to disrupt them! > > This is such an old story - so many ISPs, especially WIPSs, started just > because they either didn't have any option or all those options available > were really terrible. > > Don't you want to pick up the glove? :P > > All the best, > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.bor...@gmail.com > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:53 PM Eugene Y Chang <eugene.ch...@ieee.org> > wrote: > >> Frank, >> Thank you. What you suggest makes sense if it was objective! >> >> In my neighborhood, the ISP’s organization will feel they have nothing to >> learn from outsiders. (Worst, both major ISPs are just a subsidiary of >> another organization. They just implement corporate standards. The local >> managers are not motivated to deviate from their corporate marching orders.) >> >> A public promotion (campaign) of modern best practices is needed. Then I >> need to have this campaign spill over to the subscriber community. The >> business community needs to be educated that their productivity will >> improve. The social leaders need to learn that their community will get >> better service. Then, and only then, can I see the ISP feeling the need to >> improve. It helps if the improvement is just open-source software on their >> hardware investment. >> >> >> Gene >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Eugene Chang >> IEEE Life Senior Member >> >> >> >> On Apr 30, 2024, at 11:35 AM, Frantisek Borsik < >> frantisek.bor...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Eugene - the easiest thing in the case of your ISP would be tell him >> about us: https://libreqos.io >> >> He can take a look on it, join our support chat and get help if he won't >> be able to get it up and running: >> https://chat.libreqos.io/join/fvu3cerayyaumo377xwvpev6/ >> >> But most of the ISPs don't need to talk with us at all, it's easy to >> deploy. >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Frank >> >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >> >> >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >> >> Skype: casioa5302ca >> >> frantisek.bor...@gmail.com >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:22 PM Eugene Y Chang via Starlink < >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> OK. I need help teaching my ISPs that they can do this without >>> threatening their business model. >>> Who can help me? >>> >>> A public demo? Yes! Are you saying that if our (my) neighborhood ISP >>> adopted the lessons from the public demo, most of the latency issues would >>> be solved? What won’t get fixed? How do we make this a widely adopted best >>> practice? Am I crying over issues that are already fixed? Does this >>> simplify the issues at the FCC? >>> >>> Gene >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> Eugene Chang >>> IEEE Life Senior Member >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Taht <dave.t...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Just fq codel or cake everything and you get all that. >>> >>> Libreqos is free software for those that do not want to update their >>> data plane. Perhaps we should do a public demo of what it can do for every >>> tech on the planet. Dsl benefits, fiber does also (but it is the stats that >>> matter more on fiber because the customer wifi becomes bloated) >>> >>> Starlink merely fq codeled their wifi and did some aqm work (not codel I >>> think) to get the amazing results they are getting today. I don't have the >>> waveform test results handy but they are amazing. I feel a sea change in >>> the wind... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:51 PM Eugene Y Chang via Starlink < >>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Colin, >>>> I am overwhelmed with all the reasons that prevent low(er) or >>>> consistent latency. >>>> I think that our best ISP offerings should deliver graceful, agile, or >>>> nimble service. Sure, handle all the high-volume data. The high-volume >>>> service just shouldn’t preclude graceful service. Yes, the current ISP >>>> practices fall short. Can we help them improve their service? >>>> >>>> Am I asking too much? >>>> >>>> Gene >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> Eugene Chang >>>> IEEE Life Senior Member >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 9:31 AM, Colin_Higbie via Starlink < >>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Gene, >>>> >>>> I think the lion's share of other people (many brilliant people here) >>>> on this thread are focused on keeping latency down when under load. I >>>> generally just read and don't contribute on those discussions, because >>>> that's not my area of expertise. I only posted my point on bandwidth, not >>>> to detract from the importance of reducing latency, but to correct what I >>>> believed to be an important error on minimum bandwidth required to be able >>>> to perform standard Internet functions. >>>> >>>> To my surprise, there was pushback on the figure, so I've responded to >>>> try to educate this group on streaming usage in the hope that the people >>>> working on the latency problem under load (core reason for this group to >>>> exist) can also be aware of the minimum bandwidth needs to ensure they >>>> don't plan based on bad assumptions. >>>> >>>> For a single user, minimum bandwidth (independent of latency) needs to >>>> be at least 25Mbps assuming the goal is to provide access to all standard >>>> Internet services. Anything short of that will deny users access to the >>>> primary streaming services, and more specifically won't be able to watch 4K >>>> HDR video, which is the market standard for streaming services today and >>>> likely will remain at that level for the next several years. >>>> >>>> I think it's fine to offer lower-cost options that don't deliver 4K HDR >>>> video (not everyone cares about that), but at least 25Mbps should be >>>> available to an Internet customer for any new Internet service rollout. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Colin >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Starlink <starlink-boun...@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of >>>> starlink-requ...@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 3:05 PM >>>> To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> Subject: Starlink Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15 >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 09:04:43 -1000 >>>> From: Eugene Y Chang <eugene.ch...@ieee.org> >>>> To: Colin_Higbie <chigb...@higbie.name>, Dave Taht via Starlink >>>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] It’s the Latency, FCC >>>> Message-ID: <438b1bc4-d465-497a-b6ba-700e1d411...@ieee.org> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> I am always surprised how complicated these discussions become. >>>> (Surprised mostly because I forgot the kind of issues this community care >>>> about.) The discussion doesn’t shed light on the following scenarios. >>>> >>>> While watching stream content, activating controls needed to switch >>>> content sometimes (often?) have long pauses. I attribute that to buffer >>>> bloat and high latency. >>>> >>>> With a happy household user watching streaming media, a second user >>>> could have terrible shopping experience with Amazon. The interactive >>>> response could be (is often) horrible. (Personally, I would be doing email >>>> and working on a shared doc. The Amazon analogy probably applies to more >>>> people.) >>>> >>>> How can we deliver graceful performance to both persons in a household? >>>> Is seeking graceful performance too complicated to improve? >>>> (I said “graceful” to allow technical flexibility.) >>>> >>>> Gene >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> Eugene Chang >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Starlink mailing list >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Starlink mailing list >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >> >> >
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