Basically, Eugene, the situation you are describing is calling for a competitor to disrupt them!
This is such an old story - so many ISPs, especially WIPSs, started just because they either didn't have any option or all those options available were really terrible. Don't you want to pick up the glove? :P All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.bor...@gmail.com On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:53 PM Eugene Y Chang <eugene.ch...@ieee.org> wrote: > Frank, > Thank you. What you suggest makes sense if it was objective! > > In my neighborhood, the ISP’s organization will feel they have nothing to > learn from outsiders. (Worst, both major ISPs are just a subsidiary of > another organization. They just implement corporate standards. The local > managers are not motivated to deviate from their corporate marching orders.) > > A public promotion (campaign) of modern best practices is needed. Then I > need to have this campaign spill over to the subscriber community. The > business community needs to be educated that their productivity will > improve. The social leaders need to learn that their community will get > better service. Then, and only then, can I see the ISP feeling the need to > improve. It helps if the improvement is just open-source software on their > hardware investment. > > > Gene > ---------------------------------------------- > Eugene Chang > IEEE Life Senior Member > > > > On Apr 30, 2024, at 11:35 AM, Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.bor...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Eugene - the easiest thing in the case of your ISP would be tell him about > us: https://libreqos.io > > He can take a look on it, join our support chat and get help if he won't > be able to get it up and running: > https://chat.libreqos.io/join/fvu3cerayyaumo377xwvpev6/ > > But most of the ISPs don't need to talk with us at all, it's easy to > deploy. > > > All the best, > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.bor...@gmail.com > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:22 PM Eugene Y Chang via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> OK. I need help teaching my ISPs that they can do this without >> threatening their business model. >> Who can help me? >> >> A public demo? Yes! Are you saying that if our (my) neighborhood ISP >> adopted the lessons from the public demo, most of the latency issues would >> be solved? What won’t get fixed? How do we make this a widely adopted best >> practice? Am I crying over issues that are already fixed? Does this >> simplify the issues at the FCC? >> >> Gene >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Eugene Chang >> IEEE Life Senior Member >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 30, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Taht <dave.t...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Just fq codel or cake everything and you get all that. >> >> Libreqos is free software for those that do not want to update their data >> plane. Perhaps we should do a public demo of what it can do for every tech >> on the planet. Dsl benefits, fiber does also (but it is the stats that >> matter more on fiber because the customer wifi becomes bloated) >> >> Starlink merely fq codeled their wifi and did some aqm work (not codel I >> think) to get the amazing results they are getting today. I don't have the >> waveform test results handy but they are amazing. I feel a sea change in >> the wind... >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:51 PM Eugene Y Chang via Starlink < >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> Colin, >>> I am overwhelmed with all the reasons that prevent low(er) or consistent >>> latency. >>> I think that our best ISP offerings should deliver graceful, agile, or >>> nimble service. Sure, handle all the high-volume data. The high-volume >>> service just shouldn’t preclude graceful service. Yes, the current ISP >>> practices fall short. Can we help them improve their service? >>> >>> Am I asking too much? >>> >>> Gene >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> Eugene Chang >>> IEEE Life Senior Member >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 9:31 AM, Colin_Higbie via Starlink < >>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>> Gene, >>> >>> I think the lion's share of other people (many brilliant people here) on >>> this thread are focused on keeping latency down when under load. I >>> generally just read and don't contribute on those discussions, because >>> that's not my area of expertise. I only posted my point on bandwidth, not >>> to detract from the importance of reducing latency, but to correct what I >>> believed to be an important error on minimum bandwidth required to be able >>> to perform standard Internet functions. >>> >>> To my surprise, there was pushback on the figure, so I've responded to >>> try to educate this group on streaming usage in the hope that the people >>> working on the latency problem under load (core reason for this group to >>> exist) can also be aware of the minimum bandwidth needs to ensure they >>> don't plan based on bad assumptions. >>> >>> For a single user, minimum bandwidth (independent of latency) needs to >>> be at least 25Mbps assuming the goal is to provide access to all standard >>> Internet services. Anything short of that will deny users access to the >>> primary streaming services, and more specifically won't be able to watch 4K >>> HDR video, which is the market standard for streaming services today and >>> likely will remain at that level for the next several years. >>> >>> I think it's fine to offer lower-cost options that don't deliver 4K HDR >>> video (not everyone cares about that), but at least 25Mbps should be >>> available to an Internet customer for any new Internet service rollout. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Colin >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Starlink <starlink-boun...@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of >>> starlink-requ...@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 3:05 PM >>> To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> Subject: Starlink Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15 >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 09:04:43 -1000 >>> From: Eugene Y Chang <eugene.ch...@ieee.org> >>> To: Colin_Higbie <chigb...@higbie.name>, Dave Taht via Starlink >>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] It’s the Latency, FCC >>> Message-ID: <438b1bc4-d465-497a-b6ba-700e1d411...@ieee.org> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> I am always surprised how complicated these discussions become. >>> (Surprised mostly because I forgot the kind of issues this community care >>> about.) The discussion doesn’t shed light on the following scenarios. >>> >>> While watching stream content, activating controls needed to switch >>> content sometimes (often?) have long pauses. I attribute that to buffer >>> bloat and high latency. >>> >>> With a happy household user watching streaming media, a second user >>> could have terrible shopping experience with Amazon. The interactive >>> response could be (is often) horrible. (Personally, I would be doing email >>> and working on a shared doc. The Amazon analogy probably applies to more >>> people.) >>> >>> How can we deliver graceful performance to both persons in a household? >>> Is seeking graceful performance too complicated to improve? >>> (I said “graceful” to allow technical flexibility.) >>> >>> Gene >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> Eugene Chang >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> > >
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