On Sat, 16 Dec 2023, David Fernández via Starlink wrote:
"if that problem were to be faced today, would the right answer be
massive public agencies to build and run miles of wire from massive
central power plants? or would the right answer be solar + batteries
in individual houses?"
I think that is a false dichotomy. It is not one or the other, but
both are needed, as discovered recently in Tonga, Ukraine, New
Zealand... Centralized systems are efficient, but everything fails if
they don't work.
Satellite communications are the equivalent for communications of this
for electricity:
https://www.shareable.net/introducing-the-emergency-battery-network-toolkit
I would consider even adding pedaling to the kit:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/use-your-bike-as-a-backup-to-your-backup-power-supply
You use satellite communications in remote locations or in case the
terrestrial network is not working or covering you (mobile and/or
fixed).
note that I was specifically talking about the problem of rural areas. For
electicity, we had the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority
created to build the massive power plants and run the wires needed to provide
power throughout the area. It was the only way to get the job done at that point
in technological development.
It seems to me that the powers-that-be are looking for the same type of thing
for the rural Internet problem.
I'm saying that the Starlink equivalent for electricity would be solar/wind +
batteries instead.
the battery toolkit and bike powered generators are NOT the same thing as
starlink (they may be similar to the hughsnet directtv Internet service, better
than nothing but barely)
Starlink isn't providing the 100Mb down/20Mb up as an average across the country
that the FCC is looking for (and I'll skip the disucssion on if they are
measuring correctly or too soon), but what Starlink is providing is very usable,
even in congested areas.
David Lang
Regards,
David
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:13:55 -0800 (PST)
From: David Lang <da...@lang.hm>
To: rjmcmahon <rjmcma...@rjmcmahon.com>
Cc: " Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?="
<nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net>, Sebastian Moeller <moell...@gmx.de>,
David Lang <da...@lang.hm>, starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [NNagain] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's
RDOF Application
Message-ID: <471154o6-no08-67or-p1o2-np919ro26...@ynat.uz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet access? and
what
in the world does the sex of individuals have to do with shipping bits
around?
Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to get
Internet
service to everyone without having to run fiber to every house.
As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem were to be
faced today, would the right answer be massive public agencies to build and
run
miles of wire from massive central power plants? or would the right answer
be
solar + batteries in individual houses for the most rural folks, with small
modular reactors to power the larger population areas?
Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past doesn't
mean
that approach is the best thing to do today.
David Lang
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
Hi All,
We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for electricity
decades
ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health and distance
learning
requires us to do so. There is so much to follow.
A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm
skeptical a
patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We probably need a woman
to
lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best work for our country and
to
be an example to the world.
A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill – no
matter
how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford proper medical
care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth. During the 1930s,
the
federal government sent physicians to examine a sampling of Hill Country
women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158 had perineal tears.
Many
of them, the team of gynecologists reported, were third-degree tears,
“tears
so bad that it is difficult to see how they stand on their feet.” But they
were standing on their feet, and doing all the chores that Hill Country
wives
had always done – hauling the water, hauling the wood, canning, washing,
ironing, helping with the shearing, the plowing and the picking.
Because there was no electricity.
Bob
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote:
Hi Frantisek,
On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
<nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of satcom
such
as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to overcome the
'tangled fiber' problem.
No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of digital
divide
-
I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the goal to
make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially
everywhere;
it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at specifically reducing the
digital divide (were often an important factor is not necessarily
location
but financial means).
Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to make a
profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company because
of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to service
people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure
delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is literally
none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there, it will
be
like 10 years down the road.
This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a
universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme locations,
no
need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt. Whitney).
And
f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is infrastructure that will
keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However given that
time
frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim period. I would
have naively thought starlink would qualify for that from a technical
perspective, but then the FCC documents actually discussion requirements
and how they were or were not met/promised by starlink was mostly
redacted.
what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between
houses is 'too far'?
we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities with
housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there are
apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable enough.
When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the cost
of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the majority of
the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure), but
it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once you get
out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or
village becomes a major undertaking.
Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an
'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan which is less
than an hours drive from the state capitol.
David Lang
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
