As I keep trying to beat into people’s brains, Codes are a minimum. If the project is not design-build, then you need to look to see if there is a spec that asks for more. This phenomenon is not restricted to the west coast.
> > On Feb 21, 2024 at 9:08 AM, <Travis Mack (mailto:[email protected])> wrote: > > > > > > As Steve points out, it is AM&M. If you are a 3rd party designer and > didn’t ask if there was an AM&M, as it is quite common in CA, then lesson > learned. If the builder, owner or sprinkler contractor didn’t review prior > to bid then lesson learned for them. > > > > > > > > AM&M can be costly. But it was owner/builder choice to encroach on the > setback. So I assume they chose the cost of doing the AM&M was less > important than building into the setback. > > > > > > > > If you had the information up front and didn’t use it, then redo the design > and move on. If the owner / builder had it and didn’t get it to you, > submit change order, redo the design and move on. > > > > > > > > As I was taught long ago, all education costs. Some you pay to > universities and such. Others you pay to the School of Hard Knocks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis Mack, SET > > > > M.E.P.CAD| Instructor / Support > > > > 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 > > > > www.mepcad.com (http://www.mepcad.com/) | m: 480.547.9348| Whatspp: > +14805479348 > > > > Email: [email protected] > > > > > > > > AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 6:52 AM > To: 'Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers' > <[email protected]>; 'Steve Leyton' > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Modified 13D System per FD > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure, but I don’t believe I’ve ever seen rules related to wagering > on the forum. I do not believe it would be appropriate however, in the > unlikely event of “off-track” betting on the outcome of a code application, > the house should get 10%. No vig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Caputo, CFPS > > > > > > > > President > > > > > > > > American Fire Sprinkler Association > > > > c: 760-908-7753 > > > > > > > > p: > > > > > > 214-349-5965 ext124 > > > > > > > > w: > > > > > > firesprinkler.org (http://firesprinkler.org/) > > > > > > > > (https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Treat Your Apprentices Like VIPs! > > > > AFSA’s Virtual Instruction Program (VIP) for Apprentices is training that > comes straight from our expert instructors. They lead the way to ensure your > men and women are trained, letting you focus on OJT. Click here > (https://www.firesprinkler.org/sprinkler-apprentice-training/) to learn > more and enroll > > > > > > > > > > > From: BRUCE VERHEI <[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 2:54 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])>; Steve Leyton > <[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Modified 13D System per FD > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately I assume we can’t arrange wagers on this forum. I’d give odds > Steve L is correct on more than one of his points. > > > > > > One more reason to follow the no installation prior to plans review practice. > I’ve gone round and round more than once on 13-D that just don’t work > hydraulically. Knowing there’s not enough margin to spend hours yakking with > the plan reviewer on these jobs I finally learned to ask ‘Is this already > installed?’ Uh, yeah. I was hoping to pick up permit today, for inspection > tomorrow. You gotta approve it the GC is riding me. > > > > > > > > > > > > i wonder if the u/g is sized adequately. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce V. > > > > > > > > > > > On 02/20/2024 2:20 PM PST Steve Leyton <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a set-back deficiency and the project was permitted with the > > upgraded sprinkler system as a condition of approval, it’s perfectly legit. > > Before you designed the system, did the owner or their agent inform > > you that there were alternative means and methods required? I would > > first ask them, because if the situation is what LACFD informed you that it > > is, then the owner has almost certainly been informed of these upgrades in > > writing and the information wasn’t conveyed to the construction team. > > Did you look at the code analysis in the plans to see if it’s there? > > Are you the contractor or a contract designer? If you’re a 3rd > > party, did the contractor bid off of plans that may include this > > information and they’re the ones that didn’t convey to you? > > > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Owen Evans <[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 1:39 PM > > To: [email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected]) > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Modified 13D System per FD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I designed a standard 13D system for a new SFR in Hermosa Beach Ca.. > > The city of Hermosa Beach contracts with LA County for their fire > > protection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I received corrections requiring a 4 head calculation, heads in all > > compartments and attic, and under all exterior overhangs. They call it a > > modified 13D system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I spoke with the plans examiner and he stated this is an LA country > > requirement with approval from the city of Hermosa Beach. I asked for the > > amendment that allows this “modified 13D” system. He stated that because > > the SFR encroaches into the 5’ setback, it’s an alternate means and > > method, no amendment required. This is going to result in a significant > > cost increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this situation legit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owen Evans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS > > (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > [email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected]) > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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